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Technical Sei 1100 Fire timing belt change - Oh crap!

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Technical Sei 1100 Fire timing belt change - Oh crap!

Jules Sei

Jules Sei

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May 20, 2009
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Please help.

Needed to change the water pump because it was leaking.

Thought it would be a good idea as a new owner to chance the plugs and leads, and timing belt and tensioner as well.

Need a couple of questions from knowlegeable member answered.

If I say plug one is on the left of the engine as I stand in front of it, and there are four coil points running towards me, from the bulk head to the the raidiator as I look at them, let's say 1 is closest to the bulk head and 4 is nearest me. Based on this, which plug goes to which coil ?

Under the airbox there are two vacuum hoses, one comes from the throttle side and one comes from the intake side. If the airbox is mounted on the throttle which one goes to the left connect and which one goes to the right, looking onto the airbox from above.

I have changed the water pump and thankfully no leaks, the belt the factor gave me is the wrong one, I have reused the old belt.

The car starts and will rev fine, but will not idle, I'm stuffed, please help.

Cheers, Jules
 
The other thing I am unsure about is the relationship between the top (camshaft) and lower (crankshaft) pullys. Is setting the timing purely a case of aligning the marks or could I have turned the pulleys too much and thus sent them out of sync.

Is it a on turn to one turn, can they go out of cycle if you turn one more than the other?
 
You can get the crank 360 degrees out but it wont run at all then, you have to set the crank at number one piston compression TDC, remove plugs and rotate until you find compression at one, pinky in plus hole will do. Then aling the cam wheel mark and you are done.

I think you have not put back all the bits of black spagetti, where they came from, good luck, this is an It car...

Noel
 
Pep0 said:
You can get the crank 360 degrees out but it wont run at all then, you have to set the crank at number one piston compression TDC, remove plugs and rotate until you find compression at one, pinky in plus hole will do. Then aling the cam wheel mark and you are done.

I think you have not put back all the bits of black spagetti, where they came from, good luck, this is an It car...

Noel
Click to expand...

Is it possible to be 360 degree out? If both mark lines iup, then he could only be 180 degree out.

As for for TDC, do you just remove plug 1 and put your pinky in it till u feel air blowing out ?

Thanks
Ming
 
I think I see what he's trying to say, but you are right, 360 degrees is back where you started.

Put pinky in hole, you know you are on compression stroke as air will push at your pinkie as the piston comes up.

If you are on exhaust stroke, the valve will be open and there will be no pressure on your pinkie.

Cheers

SPD
 
rallycinq said:
I think I see what he's trying to say, but you are right, 360 degrees is back where you started.

Put pinky in hole, you know you are on compression stroke as air will push at your pinkie as the piston comes up.

If you are on exhaust stroke, the valve will be open and there will be no pressure on your pinkie.

Cheers

SPD
Click to expand...

Ah i guess you need to do this at cylinder 1 spark plug hole?

And you only do this if you loses the timing mark on the cylinder head?

Thanks
Ming
 
Some useful advice there thankyou.

So am I correct in assuming that the bottom turns twice to the top ones once ?

It is interesting that the consenus is that it will not run at all, I managed to get it to start but the leads were not in the correct order. It would only fire when 1 and 4 and 2 and 3 were on the same coils.

TDC is when the top cog timing mark is at 9 o'clock is it not ?

So if I set this and then wind the crank cog around once, I should be back to normal ?

Thank god these are non interference engines.

(y)
 
See if had an exam on timing marks and stuff, i would fail like fucc..kk

I would just use that pinky trick as suggested then put a mark on the block to the crank pulley and a mark on the head to the cam pulley. Turn the bottom twice and see if both mark lines back up!

Ming
 
Wasted spark ignition means that 1 and 4 are paired and 2 and 3 are paired. When no 1 is on compression number 4 is at the end of the exhaust stroke so the spark going there does nothing. (there is an advanced theory that it will ignite any unburnt gasses in the exhaust mix which helps emmissions, but thats for another day)

Crank turns twice for each rotation of the cam, 9 oclock is correct for the cam timing mark, (boy is there a story there) you should always turn the engine over by hand at least four complete rotations and make sure its still lining up.

If you get the timing 180 degrees out the spark happens when each cylinder is on the wrong stroke which usually means fire in the TB.

Also check the ignition timing, the toothed wheel on the crank pulley has a hole in it that must line up with the nipple on the cambelt pulley.

Cheers

SPD
 
Jules Sei said:
So am I correct in assuming that the bottom turns twice to the top ones once ?
[/edit] yes
Jules Sei said:
It would only fire when 1 and 4 and 2 and 3 were on the same coils.
[/edit]

Plugs are fired twice per crank cycle 720 degrees (more then necessary) so you might get the engine to run with bad plug lead connections...
Jules Sei said:
TDC is when the top cog timing mark is at 9 o'clock is it not ?
[/edit]
no TDC is where the bottom cog timing mark is at 9 oclock, you then have to set the top cog to match (its mark), if it is compression cycle at number 1 piston. Top dead centre is piston position.

P.S. 90 degrees is 1/4 turn, 180 is half a turn, 360 is a complete turn... note Jules this last is not for you...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
So once I have the leads in the correct order and it doesn't fire, I need to line the top (cam) up at 9 o'clock and then wind the bottom (crank) around one complete turn to 11 o'clock.

(Thanks for the advice about the crank sensor, I did work that one out around lunchtime yesterday :cool:)
 
Are you sure you're not a tooth or two out on the timing belt? It's easy to do & can make the engine run like s**t.

The engine only working with 1+4 & 2+3 on the same coils is right, if you have 1+3 & 2+4 or 1+2 & 3+4 you're timing is 180º out on 2 cylinders which is almost certainly going to stop the engine from working, see below for the picture of the crank.

Getting the timing 360º out will have no effect on the engine
naread.exe.png
as you can clearly see from that picture. If you're 360º out then you're at TDC on cylinder 4 not 1, the injection is semi-sequential at best & the spark point happens on both the compression & exhaust stroke of the engine. Basically you've reversed the phase of the engine & that only matters with a COP arrangement on our engines. Hell I ran my Punto for over a year 360º out & only noticed when I changed the timing belt. If the engine was 180º out I wouldn't expect to work.
 
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