Just thinking with 160bhp, and the same fire gearbox, will it run an LSD?! I can't find any technical spec's but hoping someone is in the know.

Could be a nice easy upgrade for us?

Kristian

Do you know after last weeks top gear i have been wondering the same thing but there is no mention of it anywhere in any of the blurb, so I have a sneaking feeling that it is just electronic TC

didnt it come very close to the elise time round the track though.. thats not possible without an LSD.. surely??

indeed, it was faster than the elise. I also thought it must have some kind of LSD, but i may be wrong.

Whose got a copy of the latest ePER? :devil:

Which Elise on which track? If it's the N/As the K series engines can't compete on output terms, the yota engine has no mid-range so the 500 will have an advantage there...

Very much doubt any modern car FWD car has an LSD as TC gives the effect they want for a lot less hassle in R&D, parts, etc..

I don't know what an LSD looks like but hwat can be made out from these?







I don't know what elise, but it was on the top gear track.

Kristian

It was on Top Gear's track. Difficult to remember how long they keep the times up there. but I suspect it was the NA Toyota lumpen version. Still, no mean achievement.

I heard no mention of LSD (but I missed the first bit).

Two points:

1. Although the gearbox fits a FIRE engine, I wonder how much it internally resembles previous FIRE ones -- remember Dave the Trike talking of fitting late Punto boxes to FIRE belhousings?

2. That it's out there may mean that someone like Quaife start knocking out LSDs for it. And -- say £350 plus fitting sure beats £650 plus fitting.

Yeah it's a 111R was the last one, so 135lbft at somewhere over 6200 rpm, second cam kicks in there & fairly lackluster performance on 1st cam, 192bhp at around 7800 rpm. And it's not that light a car in 'yota trim.

No plates or viscous pack in those EPER diagrams, so I am guessing Electrickery.

Cheers

PD

bah, thats a shame then. Onto the next idea :idea:

The Top Gear time for Lotus was set in the wet, so it just beat a wet Lotus with the SS kit fitted.

Many FWD cars are fitted with LSD, in fact fastest production FWD around Nurburgring the Renault Meagane R26R has one, as do the R26 F1 and Cup versions, and new Civic Type R in Ltd Ed Chamionship White will have a LSD said to make it much better than standard.

Of course the integra Type R DC2 (meant to be best FWD car ever) & DC5, original JDM EK9 Civic Type R, the JDM EP3 Civic Type R has LSD, and the new JDM Civic Type R FD2 including the radical Mugen Type RR all have LSD's.










New Ford Focus RS is said to have one as well.

You can buy the Alfa Q2 diff for about £300, it's dam good value, and I am sure I read somewhere that the reason the Abarth Models of GP and 500 use an Alfa 5 speed box as opposed to the 6 speed FIRE box as it can't sustain the power on durability testing.

But considering the MiTo is near enough same car as 500 Abarth and its said to have electronic tricker at play and no mechanical diff, sure 500 will be similar.

Most cars now by employing Bosch electronics have very similar setups.

arc said:

didnt it come very close to the elise time round the track though.. thats not possible without an LSD.. surely??

Click to expand...

Where did u get that info from ?

Ming

top gear the other week?

Yep.

I'm not sure the Elise was in the wet (can't find the board on their website) -- the Exige certainly was, but even by Lotus standards you'd have to be dreadfully unlucky to have your new car tested in the wet twice in a row.

Both the Elise (111S, sorry not R) & S2 Exige they tested ended up with laps done in the wet.

Yep.

I'm not sure the Elise was in the wet (can't find the board on their website) -- the Exige certainly was, but even by Lotus standards you'd have to be dreadfully unlucky to have your new car tested in the wet twice in a row.

J333EVO said:

You can buy the Alfa Q2 diff for about £300, it's dam good value, and I am sure I read somewhere that the reason the Abarth Models of GP and 500 use an Alfa 5 speed box as opposed to the 6 speed FIRE box as it can't sustain the power on durability testing.

But considering the MiTo is near enough same car as 500 Abarth and its said to have electronic tricker at play and no mechanical diff, sure 500 will be similar.

Most cars now by employing Bosch electronics have very similar setups.

Click to expand...

When you say "Alfa Q2 Diff" I take it you mean the Quaife Q2K Diff??

I'd love to know where I could get one for £300?? Also, that Diff will not directly fit into a Fire Gearbox. I "Think" the bolt pattern for the Ring gear is different, and I "Know" that the splines are different on the diff and output shafts. The Diff is 24 spline, and the shafts are 22 Spline on Cinq's, Sei's and Panda's. I'm trying to see if the output shafts from a Punto will fit the diff and the Panda 100hp Tripode joints??

Just doing a quick search I got first hit Alfa Q2 diff £260 + carriage and VAT

http://www.ebspares.co.uk/news77.htm

There are other resellers about with similar prices.

Even supplied and fitted its about £500 + VAT though sure I have seen it even cheaper than that http://www.alfatecnico.co.uk/alfa romeo q2 differential.html

There's even a fitting guide for it on here http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/156-147-GT-Q2 Differential.shtml

This is an actual Alfa Romeo product information guide http://www.alfaromeo.co.uk/uk/cmsen...aspx?outputXml=true&CustomResponse=WebCrawler

HTH

Aaron.

Forgot to add seing as this was about the 500 Abarth, it defo has a 5 speed gearbox like the GP Abarth, which I believe is an Alfa box which points to fact the 6 speed gearbox effectivelt an evolution of the old 5 speed gearbox as fitted to FIRE engined cars like 'cento's, Punto etc so probably at limits of what it can handle in terms of torque for long term durability.

I know from someone who test drove the 500 Abarth last week the gearchnage has a different feel than his current 6 speed 1.4 16V 500, slightly longer throw, not quite as slick.

And it has no mechanical diff, just the electric one.

Just to update. I took one out for a drive. IT's all electronic. Applies brakes to spinning wheels independently, and all the usual spark retard traction control etc.

Krisitian

kritip said:

Just to update. I took one out for a drive. IT's all electronic. Applies brakes to spinning wheels independently, and all the usual spark retard traction control etc.

Krisitian

Click to expand...

Yeah it was never going to get one, the appling brakes to spinning wheels is traction control, one of the reasons so many new cars were very poor in the recent snow, because appling brakes & killing power is not going to work too well, I know Emmas Dad's 500 1.4 was poor in the snow, he had to turn the traction control off to try and make the car work a bit better.

Yet Emma's FTO with way way more power, and wider wheels and no traction just a nice mechanical diff worked wonderfully well showing how well a good mechanical set up can be. Makes getting the diff for the Cento's even more exciting.

The 500 Abarth has got an "electronic diff" whereby rather than apply brakes and kill power (all done through Bosch ECU, Bosch ABS, even the brake callipers are Bosch now so everything talks to each other) it transfers torque to the wheel with more grip to act like a mechanic diff keeping power applied, but as was said in Auto Car review this week, it's not as good as mechanical diff.

As with all Bosch equipped Fly-by-wire cars now, you can't left foot brake either because as soon as the brake peddle is pressed the accelerator is cut and theres nothing you can do about it.

I'll reserve full judgement until Emma's dad's arrives.