Does anyone know the procedure to retard the timing on a cinquecento sporting? i would like to retard it so that i can run a nitrous system without damaging anything too much.

If i were to retard the timing by say 4 degrees would i have to run a premium fuel all the time?

Cheers in advance guys and girls

Move the slot on the toothed wheel.

Cheers

PD

Not sure what you think retarding the ignition is going to do. Premium fuels burn in a more controlled way than lower octane ones. Thus, they'll generally run with more advance without detonation.

There are cheap and nasty and correct ways of retarding the ignition. What you need to know is that advance of the Cinqs is mapped: it's largely a function of the ECU.

You can change the fixed advance by taking a file to the points where the coil pack mounts to the cylinder head. It'll allow you to swing the ignition timing. Important to use a strobe at a fixed rpm to give you some idea of where you're going with the retardation before you take out the file.

You may find that with 4 degrees of retard everywhere, the car is difficult to start.

A far better way to proceed is with an aftermarket ECU, which will handle the fuelling and maybe the Nos, too. Many can switch between maps so you could have a "normal" map and a "Nos" map.

Get the fuelling wrong -- or even the grade of plugs -- and 4 degrees of ignition retard is unlikely to save your engine.

i believe megasquirt can sort out window switches for nitrous, so it'll only operate in a certain rev range,coolant temp range etc.


and yes you'll be able to switch maps over for when you want to use nitrous with megasquirt.

well if you get the fueling right then you don't really need to worry too much


but by running noz you have to accept that at some point you will inflict damage to your engine, that is just the fact of life if you choose easy options.

You can go custom ECU, Piggy backs etc but if you are worried about your engine then you can get a lot more out of the car without giggle gas and have that available all the time

fingers99 said:

You can change the fixed advance by taking a file to the points where the coil pack mounts to the cylinder head. It'll allow you to swing the ignition timing. Important to use a strobe at a fixed rpm to give you some idea of where you're going with the retardation before you take out the file.

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You having a laugh John? Im sure youre talking about swinging the coils around arent you?

allanhelen said:

You can go custom ECU, Piggy backs etc but if you are worried about your engine then you can get a lot more out of the car without giggle gas and have that available all the time

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:yeahthat:

for the price of a nitrous kit you could get a decent C&B cam and probs build up a megasquirt. lots of fun, and the price of the nitrous you'll use will buy you other parts like a exhaust manifold.

Will be fast enough if you start with a p75 engine like i think you were on about in another thread

arseofbox said:

You having a laugh John? Im sure youre talking about swinging the coils around arent you?

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he's thinking of distributors isnt he

No. Not points as in points in a dizzy, but points as in the holes where the coil pack bolts on the head. Elongate those and you should be able to adjust the ignition timing, but set it as 4 degrees retard and it'll be 4 degrees retard everywhere (which won't be a good thing everywhere, if anywhere).

it wont make any differance, surly the ECU controls the LT,and the coil does its job and boots out a HT spark. not matter what postition the coil is in

Brooky said:

it wont make any differance, surly the ECU controls the LT,and the coil does its job and boots out a HT spark. not matter what postition the coil is in

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I think he is thinking the coil pick-up is on the end of the cam.

File the toothed wheel, I think someone said earlier.

Cheers

PD

which pulley, cam or crank sensor pulley??

Coil pick up isnt on the end of the cam tho is it??

Crank sensor pulley is the only way to adjust the timing other than remapping the ECU. But its a bodge, and as said will affect the whole rev range.

On nos, you may be wanting a fair bit of retard like the turbo's .. 10 degrees possibly, and it you move the crank pulley than far you will be idling and cranking at 0 degrees BTDC....it aint gonna happen very easily

Brooky said:

which pulley, cam or crank sensor pulley??

Coil pick up isnt on the end of the cam tho is it??

Click to expand...

Crank pulley, where the TDC sensor points.

Cheers

PD

fingers99 said:

No. Not points as in points in a dizzy, but points as in the holes where the coil pack bolts on the head. Elongate those and you should be able to adjust the ignition timing, but set it as 4 degrees retard and it'll be 4 degrees retard everywhere (which won't be a good thing everywhere, if anywhere).

Click to expand...

you can mount the coils where-ever you want, and it will have no effect on the timing what so ever. the coil is triggered by an -ve pulse on the LT connection - and the only way to control the timing is to manipulate that.

the way to do it is... remove the front wheel on the drivers side of the car then the wheel arch liner. now you will see a pully(with a "toothed" edge) that goes to the alternator. its held on by 4 bolt. remove these and then the pully.
On the pully you will see a small hole which locates on a pin on the crank shaft.
Drill this hole out to about 4mm, and also file out the bolt holes.
once done you will be able to move the timing a few degrees either way.

I REALLY dont think you should do it tho. go megasquirt!

Or like i will be doing later move the crank sensor 3degrees retarded or if i get really bored then use an actuator on the crank sensor so off boost it advances the timing and on boost retards it which is a big bodge but funny if worked.
like already said start with the full punto75 engine with a remap which will give near 25bhp increase all the time and not have a worry of anything melting or popping
but iirc some people evan lower the compression slightly on cars with noz??

cheers for all the advice so far people i have been looking at a megasquirt system but im no mechnic. Im good at electronics and could hook it all up but would need someone to map it correctly for me. Anyone know of any places that can do this cheaply? Also could you switch the map on the fly and also have that same switch arm the nos system ready for use?

Would one of the outputs have to be wired to a relay to arm the nos?

You can do your own mapping with a laptop: getting a RR to set it up will not be cheap.

For the switching, try a google.

buy megasquirt from here http://www.glensgarage.com
be sure to get MSII and PCBv3
ms2 is a much faster chip and does alot more then the older chip.

you and get it in kit form which you need to solder together. also get a laptop lead and jimstim(for testing/burning in the ecu) all together it comes to about 180quid. (inc shipping)

then go to www.trigger-wheels.com (uk based this time) and buy the Edgetech 2J1 wideband system. £130 inc postage.

wire all this to your car and it will already have more power, but the main thing is its opened up options to add nos/turbo/supercharger/water injection/shift lights/ launch control.... without any effort


once I buy a lambda from trigger wheels and a MPI fuel pump my project cinq will be on MS