(T) Powerflow - More Power?

Saw a thread on Exhausts a few days ago so I thought I'd report on my experience of Powerflow this week.

I took my Sie along to Powerflow at Big City Tyres in Nottingham last Saturday. Friendly people, said they'd done a lot of Seis - bit more power bit more torque No Problem !!!. I said I didn't want it too loud, and was looking to increase power at the top end of the rev range, "No problem - bigger bore tube 'straight through' back box, no intermediate box, £300, (which gets reduced to £260 after a bit of negotiation) - come back in an hour and a half"

I get back just after the agreed time, the fitters not quite finished, and it looks a fairly good job, I dont quite understand why there are so many slight bends in the mid section, but he explains "he's followed the exact shape of the original" - a bit a wasted work as the bends are mainly to accomodate the intermediate box, and as there isn't one there's loads of room in the tunnel. - still seems OK to me. I point out that the back box looks at a bit of a strange angle and a bit low at one end, (not exactly like the original) He says "It wont be a problem its still got pleanty of clearance and this way the tail pipe is exactly in the middle of the cut-out in the bumper" which it is, so OK.

They get it off the ramp and it sounds awesome!!!! so I pay and drive off initially a very happy bunny (a bit like one of Dave's). So I think I'll stop off at Toys R Us (well I've got my pressie, seems only fair to get some Xmas pressies for the kids) First speed bump Klunk ...rattle.... Klunk. OK so the zorst is knocking, its happened before, even with a standard OEM one. So I have a look at it and it seems to be the tailpipe knocking on the bumper.

So I go back, and the fitter has a look and welds on another support bar and fits another rubber hanger. The tailpipe is now very firmly located, it seems OK so I go. I give up on Toys R Us and hit the Motorway still sounds awesome but I seem to be lacking power.

I get back to my road which doesn't need speed bumps cause its got so may holes and deep drain covers. Klunk Klunk Klunk Klunk. Now I'm worried, I replaced the suspension last week. Has something come loose? - better get it up on the jacks. I start jacking up on the nearside rear shocker, the problem is obvious at about 3/4 travel the shocker hits the backbox, well at least its not the suspension. So I leave it think I'll have to go back and get it sorted during the week. I have my dinner and get on to the serious matter of the power test. Two runs it each direction on my normal test road for power, and another two each way 0-60. Get home and hook up the Dyno to the computer, run the routines look at the graphs, work out the averages Surely can't be right 1.5 seconds on the 0-60 and a power loss of 3-4 bhp. Check the temperature, pressure and RH settings from the BBC weather site, slight adjustment, well now could be as high a 5 BHP loss, torque is down 10% too.

No longer a happy bunny!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I phone them on Mondayand tell them the problems they promise to sort it all out if I bring it in Tuesday morning, so I take some time off work and go back on Tuesday with the graphs and tell them how dischuffed I am. They say "no guarentee of performance gains but Powerflow gives the best performance as proved by the Max Power test" you will have to get your car re-mapped to suit the zorst. Big, and at times heated, discussion follows, it very clear they have no real understanding or knowlege of exhaust tuning. This ends with my old zorst going back on and me getting a full refund. So i'm only down a tankfull of fuel and a half day's leave.

So my advice is stay away from Powerflow (well the one at Big City in Notts) if your interested in performance, ( they score -5 in my book) although for looks and sound I'd have to give them a 7 or 8 , maybe higher.

I've since looked at getting my Cinq Magnex box fitted with a custom midsection but the box is too deep for the sie and the tailpipe would hang down half below the cut-out. So I've ordered a Peco system as they seem to be rated by a few forum members I hope it works better than the powerflow ( I'll let you all know).

Regards,
Michael

i too am un happy with powerflow, but not on the performance issue, thats never crossed my mind

but the steel is starting to tarnish and the welds are near enough rusted right through

as i didnt take my car for the first year guarantee check, my life time guarantee is now invalid

Hi
I had a powerflow fitted to my swift GTi cost me £330 and as soon as i took a passenger in the back it used to smack like hell on the floor.Also they cut off the original mild steel exhaust flange and weld it to the new stainless pipe,so how can they lifetime warranty that?It`s also welded with mig not tig which all the top quality ones are.Seems like a lot of money for a shoddy job.
Cheers
Adrian

i had a powerflow full system on my mk2 punto and there were no problems with raised bhp by 4 and torque by 7 so not bad and the sound well that was amazing i would highly reccomend them to all!

Really sorry to here of your trouble Michael, but unfortunately this thing happens often with the "custom" exhaust makers who use universal sections to construct exhausts. I'm not saying all are bad, you can still get a good system from one of these establishments, but only if the guy who fits it is clued up, and invariably knows the car.

A proper exhaust maker should take at least half a day if not longer to put together a good system that suits the car, not just the biggest system as all cars need some amount of back pressure to function correctly. I know Stealth Systems in Southampton take a full day for the integrale system they do, and they've done a few now

My advice to any one considering is only go on reputation of the establishment not on a general consensus or published findings on one car, it may be they put a lot of development work into one popular system to make sure they got a decent result against competitors, it not like a magazine will suddenly pop up one day and ask for a system there and then, the article will be planned in advance with the exhaust makers asked to give an exhaust for the test.

Therefore if you can't get assurances from other customers to the quality of their work, go for one of the off the shelf ones because these will have been developed on dynos to extract as much as possible from the engine. Then again if its just a good sound you want then hey hoo!

Aaron.

I quite agree, I hope I made the points I intended. A) I'm sure not all powerflow franchisees are the same, and I do know of people that have had good experiences B) not everything was bad about my install C) I'm able to measure power gains/losses which meant when I went back I had some evidence D) they are actually quite nice people at Big City in Notts, in the end they refunded all my money and ended up taking a loss on the deal, they just don't know enough about tuning exhausts to be certain that you won't lose power. (I actually only asked for my money back when it became clear that they didn't know about tuning exhausts) E) Not everyone is after power and it sounded and looked really good.

michael

Sadly you had to find out the hard way, I always tell folks to steer clear of these custom places for this very reason, exhausts which are "universal" don't work on specific cars.

These boxes and design of pipe aren't flow tested so can't increase horsepower etc.

Aaron, was the custom Grale system as good as the aftermarket model specific systems?

Liam

Ive heard that powerflow use cheap grade steel and rush there work, theres a place in nuneaton called custom chrome and ive heard really good things about them, think i might take my sei there in the near future.

Aaron, was the custom Grale system as good as the aftermarket model specific systems?

Liam[/quote]

Yes, I know that one of the guys who works at Auto Integrale a vary well respected integrale & Fiat Coupe garage in Reading has had one fitted to his integrale, and that in it's self is a testament to the work that Stealth Systems do, but they are a one off stand alone company where the guy knows his onions! THis is based on approx 6 grale owners who have had one made there, and at least 2 of them have had a R/R run afterwards to see diff & reported about 15/20bhp increase, which is up there with the best systems available for the integrale, there aren't really that many options though for it as the car was built in such small numbers, the Super Sprint system is rated highly as is the CSC (Italian company) & probably the best is Evo Engineering in London who have a great system and ceramic coated manifold that can release almost 40bhp, but then that would cost about £1300!!!!

I know they have also done stuff for a few TVR & Westfield owners who use the cars on the track where performance is needed but also some tracks have noise level requirements, & they have been happy with the work.

But I'm with you on the "universal" systems, they may look good if you want the twin exit look & sound good, but I can't believe that performance wise they can do much, if anything for the majority of cars.

Aaron.

yea go there cos they the ppl that make and sell cherry bombs they do a 3" rolled box for the cinq but im not sure bout the sei?? i got quoted £286 for a 3" oval centre exit, so i sed nuts 2 that. the 3" rolled box for the cinq is £89, that includes vat and delivery.