PROV
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http://europe.autonews.com/article/...iat-unveils-new-model-for-key-compact-segment
This is the basis for the new Bravo. Looks nice I think
This is the basis for the new Bravo. Looks nice I think
General The New Bravo
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General The New Bravo
I'll have to see what the hatchback looks like first. But the front definitely looks more aggressive than the current range, it has promise.
Just scoured the web for some more photos, it has potential. I've never been a Saloon shape fan but a hatchback could be very aggressive
2 petrol engines? I'm presuming a 1.4/1.6 N/a engine and maybe a tuned multi air turbo?
The multi-jet II engines sound fun. Are these new or have we seen them already?
Multijet II is currently used on the 1.3 Multijet, 1.6 Multijet and 2.0 Multijet, so nothing new.
Read the complete press release from Fiat (incl higer quality images):
http://www.fiatpress.com/press/article/116945
http://www.fiatpress.com/press/article/116945
By the looks of it the engines will be the 1.4 16v GP sporting engine & the multi air turbo.
Isn't that the same engine in the non turbo 1.4's going in the bravo? 90 BHP I believe?
Look great - need to see the hatch back version but so far it's a 
from me.
I was wondering what was happening with the future fiat model line up which was seemingly all 500 based. Would this car also cover the punto as well?
from me.I was wondering what was happening with the future fiat model line up which was seemingly all 500 based. Would this car also cover the punto as well?
No, way to big for a Punto, however Fiat could downsize this and give the Punto some much needed anger,Look great - need to see the hatch back version but so far it's a
I was wondering what was happening with the future fiat model line up which was seemingly all 500 based. Would this car also cover the punto as well?
Kind of disappointing that the bravo's replacement won't be based on the giulietta's chassis (which is an overhauled version of the bravo's). I hope they make the back look more "Italian" with the hatchback at least as it looks too boring in this one. The best thing is that the interior looks really nice apart from the tiny 5 inch screen that fiat insist on using for some reason.
Anyway, it'll probably be a year at least before any of these start appearing so meanwhile fiat will continue to lose customers. Better late than never though.
Anyway, it'll probably be a year at least before any of these start appearing so meanwhile fiat will continue to lose customers. Better late than never though.
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It's apparently going to be priced lower than most rivals. Not Dacia-cheap, but cheaper than the majority, so it seems more like a Kia Cee'd and Hyundai i30 rival rather than a Golf/Focus one. The engine sizes (upto 120bhp) seem more Cee'd/i30 than Golf/Focus too.
If they have a 95bhp petrol engine it'll probably be the 1.4 16v, which as people have already said, was the one used in the Grande Punto & Bravo. It's also still used in the 500L and (produced in the same plant as this new car) the Doblo. I suspect the other engines will be a 1.3 Multijet, 1.6 Multijet (as seen in the Bravo & 500L amongst others) and either a detuned MultiAir engine or the 1.4 T-Jet 120, which was used in the 500L till recently and is still used in the Alfa Giulietta.
They've not said whether we'll even get these models in the UK. I hope we will, and suspect we'll get some but not all. Probably the hatch and possibly the estate, but not the saloon. The saloon looks really nice but if Skoda and Seat can't shift any of their Rapid/Toledo models in the UK then I think Fiat would be up against it with this saloon. Hatch and Estate priced well, could sell though.
Still no news on Punto replacement - the old Linea was a booted Punto, but this saloon doesn't appear to be the basis for anything Punto-related
If they have a 95bhp petrol engine it'll probably be the 1.4 16v, which as people have already said, was the one used in the Grande Punto & Bravo. It's also still used in the 500L and (produced in the same plant as this new car) the Doblo. I suspect the other engines will be a 1.3 Multijet, 1.6 Multijet (as seen in the Bravo & 500L amongst others) and either a detuned MultiAir engine or the 1.4 T-Jet 120, which was used in the 500L till recently and is still used in the Alfa Giulietta.
They've not said whether we'll even get these models in the UK. I hope we will, and suspect we'll get some but not all. Probably the hatch and possibly the estate, but not the saloon. The saloon looks really nice but if Skoda and Seat can't shift any of their Rapid/Toledo models in the UK then I think Fiat would be up against it with this saloon. Hatch and Estate priced well, could sell though.
Still no news on Punto replacement - the old Linea was a booted Punto, but this saloon doesn't appear to be the basis for anything Punto-related
I think the 5 inch screen is the basic? I'm sure they will offer a bigger screen as an extra, Volvo do the same thing. In fact many cars do now.
It's apparently going to be priced lower than most rivals. Not Dacia-cheap, but cheaper than the majority, so it seems more like a Kia Cee'd and Hyundai i30 rival rather than a Golf/Focus one. The engine sizes (upto 120bhp) seem more Cee'd/i30 than Golf/Focus too.
If they have a 95bhp petrol engine it'll probably be the 1.4 16v, which as people have already said, was the one used in the Grande Punto & Bravo. It's also still used in the 500L and (produced in the same plant as this new car) the Doblo. I suspect the other engines will be a 1.3 Multijet, 1.6 Multijet (as seen in the Bravo & 500L amongst others) and either a detuned MultiAir engine or the 1.4 T-Jet 120, which was used in the 500L till recently and is still used in the Alfa Giulietta.
They've not said whether we'll even get these models in the UK. I hope we will, and suspect we'll get some but not all. Probably the hatch and possibly the estate, but not the saloon. The saloon looks really nice but if Skoda and Seat can't shift any of their Rapid/Toledo models in the UK then I think Fiat would be up against it with this saloon. Hatch and Estate priced well, could sell though.
Still no news on Punto replacement - the old Linea was a booted Punto, but this saloon doesn't appear to be the basis for anything Punto-related
I wouldn't say the Cee'd is in that category as they have the Pro Cee'd GT which is faster than a Focus ST and looks better too.
I doubt they will have T-jet engines. They're just not efficient enough for current EU laws. The multi-air is much better, I reckon we will get a 150 BHP Model petrol, as the 120 BHP it's mentioning is in the diesel range I think. Which would sound like the 1.6 Multijet II.
The bravo was never expensive though. Undercutting golf and Focus buy a fair bit with more standard spec in the dynamic model that you found in the titanium etc. and that still didn't sell well
The issue is, when you want to buy a new car fiat isn't the place you go to. It's ford, Vauxhall, VW. It's just the way it is for most people. Especially when you have uneducated fools who slate everything fiat does.
I agree that Fiat isn't the obvious choice in this market, especially not for a Focus-sized car. They've struggled with sales volume in this category since the Tipo was phased out in the mid 90s.
Granted the Bravo was cheaper than a Focus/Golf, but not enough. They started out at launch with an entry price of £10,995, which was very good, but by the time they ended production, the starting price was around £16,000 I believe - for £1500 more you could get a Golf so most people wouldn't even contemplate a Bravo.
I did forget about the Pro_Cee'd GT (which I agree, looks ace), but the main Cee'd range only has engines upto 130bhp & Fiats Press Release does say petrol and diesel models between 95 & 120bhp, so from the current range of engines, that'd rule out a MultiAir unless they detune an existing unit or launch a new one. Personally I prefer the T-Jet, even with its higher CO2 etc, because the MultiAir units have proved a bit of a problem so far, and cost £1000 to replace if they fail, which many have at around 40k miles
The T-Jet is just a 'normal' engine with a turbo, and has proved reliable. Until Fiat sort out MultiAir so that people aren't paying £1000 for a repair just outside the warranty period, I wouldn't be keen to endorse them
I'm a T-jet fan tooI agree that Fiat isn't the obvious choice in this market, especially not for a Focus-sized car. They've struggled with sales volume in this category since the Tipo was phased out in the mid 90s.
Granted the Bravo was cheaper than a Focus/Golf, but not enough. They started out at launch with an entry price of £10,995, which was very good, but by the time they ended production, the starting price was around £16,000 I believe - for £1500 more you could get a Golf so most people wouldn't even contemplate a Bravo.
I did forget about the Pro_Cee'd GT (which I agree, looks ace), but the main Cee'd range only has engines upto 130bhp & Fiats Press Release does say petrol and diesel models between 95 & 120bhp, so from the current range of engines, that'd rule out a MultiAir unless they detune an existing unit or launch a new one. Personally I prefer the T-Jet, even with its higher CO2 etc, because the MultiAir units have proved a bit of a problem so far, and cost £1000 to replace if they fail, which many have at around 40k miles
but I agree with everything your saying. And I couldn't tell if the 120bhp limit was just diesel or not. The wording isn't clear. Doesn't the Mito have a multiair engine with 120bhp? So maybe the same engine with a longer gear box?I've not heard much about the multiair being unreliable other than the fact that's it's sensitive to oil levels/types, but yes I have a t-jet and it's a very solid engine. Mines remapped and looked after but still doesn't miss a single beat even at 71,000 miles
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DrumRollChris
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I wonder if they will be replacing the M32 gearbox....
Yeh it's stopped being used by fiat since 2010
The 5 inch is indeed the entry level one but its way too small for usability and I think some fiats don't even get an option for a bigger screen. It's weird because the dodge dart uses an 8.4" screen and its not an expensive car at all. It's a good selling point for some people too.
I'm a T-jet fan too
I've not heard much about the multiair being unreliable other than the fact that's it's sensitive to oil levels/types, but yes I have a t-jet and it's a very solid engine. Mines remapped and looked after but still doesn't miss a single beat even at 71,000 miles
From what I understand is the the multi-air engines the last two years are actually called "multi-air2" and they're supposed to be more reliable than the troublesome early version(but it was to be expected tbh since its a really bold technology). You can't argue against its benefits though. The T-jet is indeed extremely reliable and I thankfully haven't seen someone with serious engine problems on this forum.
99.99% sure they'll be using their dual clutch transmission. I'd prefer a regular automatic but they fiat don't make one apart from the special version of the ZF 9-speed auto they use in some higher models.
I'm a T-jet fan too
I've not heard much about the multiair being unreliable other than the fact that's it's sensitive to oil levels/types, but yes I have a t-jet and it's a very solid engine. Mines remapped and looked after but still doesn't miss a single beat even at 71,000 miles
Yeah I think the press release has been translated from Italian - some of took a couple of reads for me to absorb & I had to look at other articles to get the full picture! The MiTo used to have a T-Jet with 120bhp (badged 'TB' 120), though it had a 5 speed box, which I think is different to the box in the 120 T-Jet in the old Bravo? Then the MiTo got a MultiAir with 135bhp (5 speed box or TCT) and it got a power hike last year to 140bhp but was then only available with the TCT box.
They MultiAirs are great engines for performance, CO2 etc, and newer MultiAir's seem better for reliability as KHALED25 said, but the original 135 bhp and to a lesser extent 105bhp (possibly because of lower sales) has 'MultiAir Failure Database' thread on AlfaOwner.com and it's several pages long. The Giulietta has a similar series of threads for the 170bhp MultiAir too, so if hassle free running is what you're after, the T-Jet is probably the best bet!
Agree totally with your other points. However they might just use the Dualogic gearbox with the Bravo replacement, as it's looking like it'll get smaller engines than FCA typically use with the dual clutch (TCT) box and the ZF auto. Also, the Dualogic gearbox is already shipped to the Turkish factory building this new car as they also fit it to the Qubo & Doblo produced there too, so it makes sense from a logistics perspective
