Shop4Parts - UK's largest online superstore for FIAT and Alfa Romeo parts

Technical Bravo 2.0 Multijet change oil warning

Currently reading:
Technical Bravo 2.0 Multijet change oil warning

W

Wooddha

New member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
2
Points
1
Hi all!
I was driving my 2009 Bravo yesterday and the little red oil light started flashing saying "change oil", but I had the oil changed in May when I bought it. I've only done 6500 miles since then. Is this normal? Should the light be flashing so soon? I have a 200 mile trip this weekend, is it safe to drive it? The garage don't have time to sort it out today. I've dipped it and there's plenty of oil in there- topped it up to be safe too though...
What do you all think?
Thanks!!
 
When the garage changed the oil they obviously failed to Reset the Oil Change Counter/Flag.

On your engine there are TWO "service related" (if you like) settings that need to be reset.

1) General Service - this excludes oil and has no effect on 2)
2) Oil Service - this has no effect on 1)

Until the oil change reset has been done then your engine ECU will not allow a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) regeneration to happen so you need to get this oil change reset done as soon as possible AND do as *few* miles as possible till it is reset.

I would phone the garage NOW and tell them you need the reset done NOW today. Will only take them 10 minutes and that you need the car for the weekend and you do not want to damage or clog the DPF filter. (or request a loan car fully insured for you to drive all at their expense :) )
 
Wooddha said:
Hi all!
I was driving my 2009 Bravo yesterday and the little red oil light started flashing saying "change oil", but I had the oil changed in May when I bought it. I've only done 6500 miles since then. Is this normal? Should the light be flashing so soon? I have a 200 mile trip this weekend, is it safe to drive it? The garage don't have time to sort it out today. I've dipped it and there's plenty of oil in there- topped it up to be safe too though...
What do you all think?
Thanks!!
Click to expand...

If you reset the Oil Change Warning, then preumably the car will think its got new oil in, when its not. So the next Oil Change Warning will be well delayed. Ideally, you should change the oil as well as getting the counter reset. If the garage has f****d up, they should pay for it.
 
This happened to me as well, but what I've learned is that the ECU measures the properties of the oil, when its quality has decayed beyond a certain level, it flashes the "change oil" warning. The oil will decay quite faster if the car is mainly used in city traffic, if the car gets driven in A roads and motorways, the oil will last a lot longer.
 
Earandir said:
what I've learned is that the ECU measures the properties of the oil
Click to expand...

Not quite true.

There is no actual quality measuring sensors that the ECU uses to measure oil quality.

The oil quality is determined based on an algorithm. The algorithm takes into account things like number of start stop cycles, engine load and throttle usage, time and mileage durations for 'events', oil temperature, etc. etc.

It is well know that short start/stop cycles, especially if the engine is running from cold and not getting fully warm is stressful for both oil and engine. Likewise running at near max power for long periods of time, etc. etc. All of these the engine ECU can record and use to help calculate how much stress the oil has been put under. No doubt also taken into consideration is low engine speed load and fuelling which creates far more soot than with a faster running engine. More soot = higher oil contamination.

The net result of this is an oil quality rating and not an actual oil quality measurement.
 
s130 said:
Not quite true.

There is no actual quality measuring sensors that the ECU uses to measure oil quality.

The oil quality is determined based on an algorithm. The algorithm takes into account things like number of start stop cycles, engine load and throttle usage, time and mileage durations for 'events', oil temperature, etc. etc.

It is well know that short start/stop cycles, especially if the engine is running from cold and not getting fully warm is stressful for both oil and engine. Likewise running at near max power for long periods of time, etc. etc. All of these the engine ECU can record and use to help calculate how much stress the oil has been put under. No doubt also taken into consideration is low engine speed load and fuelling which creates far more soot than with a faster running engine. More soot = higher oil contamination.

The net result of this is an oil quality rating and not an actual oil quality measurement.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought, so I stand by my post #2
 
Yes the two go hand in hand. Oil change and reset that it.

Personally I don't wait till the oil change indicator wakes up. I target ever 12K so don't get near the 18K.

Yes ideally the garage should do an oil change again but may say "we'll reset the oil change flag and please come back in another 6000 miles and we'll give you a discount on your next oil change when everything will be back in sync again.

No doubt Wooddha will let us all know what happens.
 
s130 said:
Yes the two go hand in hand. Oil change and reset that it.

Personally I don't wait till the oil change indicator wakes up. I target ever 12K so don't get near the 18K.

Yes ideally the garage should do an oil change again but may say "we'll reset the oil change flag and please come back in another 6000 miles and we'll give you a discount on your next oil change when everything will be back in sync again.

No doubt Wooddha will let us all know what happens.
Click to expand...

Hi all! Thanks so much for the advice, really helpful!

I've been down to the local Fiat garage and they've reset the warning for me for free so that my DPF regenerates itself, but they were fully booked so didn't change the oil right now. It's meant that I'm able to make the trip I was planning on this weekend without screwing up the DPF. The oil in the car is only 6500 miles old (as it was changed when i bought it, they just didnt reset the service interval/oil change lights as I bought it from a Seat dealer who I presume didnt have the computer software to work on Fiats) so I'm thinking that I will probably get it changed when it gets to about 12000. I can't be bothered with the hassle of asking for a free oil change at the original Seat dealers as its 100 miles away from where I now live and the local fiat dealer will do oil and filter for £69! I'm not planning on selling it before then so it's not like the new owner will not get the warning and get in trouble and I will just have to make a note to remember to change it in another 5500 miles!

It's a good thing I asked as I think I would have just driven it the few hundred miles this weekend ignoring the light and probably f****d my DPF because I was assuming that having oil that's only 6500 miles old would not be a problem and it was just an irritating light caused by laziness at the Seat dealers! So yes, thanks a bunch basically! :)
 
So take it you can change the oil inbetween services as long as you remember to rest the counter at say next full service. Only askin as car was serviced in Febuary planning on changing oil this week as i have a wee leak and will be getting a full Fiat service again newt Febuary.

stuart
 
Yes you can do as many oil changes as you like without resetting the oil change flag. The only problem you could hit is the same as the original post. The oil change light comes on and you will have to get the flag reset ASAP. If you record your mileage since the last reset and don't gun the engine too hard then it is very unlikely that an oil change will be flagged in less than 12K miles. Even with medium to hard driving etc. then it is doubtful if the change flag will pop up at 15K miles.

The only way to predict when a change will be flagged is to use a program such as MultiECUScan when the oil degration factor can be read from the ECU and also mileage since last oil change but this data all depends on a known oil change reset point.
 
Our delta 165 has done about 6k since last oil change and shows approx 25% degradation which ties in well with the recommended oil change intervals. Curiously, but slightly off subject, we have been using the car on some more extensive drives recently but the regen frequency has actually increased to about 350 miles from over 400 I would have thought the opposite would have happened just shows that the harder driving must have produced more soot, the time taken for regen is still under 10 minutes though, 'multiecuscan' fascinating reading for anoraks ! :eek:
 
Last edited:
rossocorsa said:
Our delta 165 has done about 6k since last oil change and shows approx 25% degradation which ties in well with the recommended oil change intervals.
Click to expand...

The degradation % uses reverse logic!

100% is band new oil
25% is 75% old oil

I think you may find that your oil change light comes on sooner than you expect.

Check the "odometer at last oil change" and "distance to next oil change" parameters.
 
s130 said:
The degradation % uses reverse logic!

100% is band new oil
25% is 75% old oil

I think you may find that your oil change light comes on sooner than you expect.

Check the "odometer at last oil change" and "distance to next oil change" parameters.
Click to expand...

Yes 25% degraded shows 75% on scan :D

There are certainly some quirky ways to report on multiecuscan, presumably down to the way fiat themselves set the ecu system up, the other one that seems odd is the % clogging as apparently it can go over 200% with 100% seemingly being the normal regeneration point , or at least that's how I understand it
 
Last edited:
s130 said:
Not quite true.

There is no actual quality measuring sensors that the ECU uses to measure oil quality.

The oil quality is determined based on an algorithm. The algorithm takes into account things like number of start stop cycles, engine load and throttle usage, time and mileage durations for 'events', oil temperature, etc. etc.

It is well know that short start/stop cycles, especially if the engine is running from cold and not getting fully warm is stressful for both oil and engine. Likewise running at near max power for long periods of time, etc. etc. All of these the engine ECU can record and use to help calculate how much stress the oil has been put under. No doubt also taken into consideration is low engine speed load and fuelling which creates far more soot than with a faster running engine. More soot = higher oil contamination.

The net result of this is an oil quality rating and not an actual oil quality measurement.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected then :eek:

How do I check those parameters?
 
What you are basically looking/at is the "oil degradation" factor and "distance to next oil change". These are read/reported by programs like MultiECUScan. The same data will be available to professional equipment from the likes of Snap-On and other kit, plus of course Fiat dealer kit.

Because there is no absolute quality measurement then all one can absolutely rely on is having an oil change AND having the oil change flag reset at the same time.

What annoys me about this diesel oil change flag reset is that it appears that even some Fiat dealers are failing to a) do it and b) understand why and how to do it. Many just focus and home in the on "Service" computer and are totally unaware of the separate and independent oil service/change for Fiat's modern diesel engines.

You could all really get me very angry over this. I've owned privately and worked on my own Fiats for 41+ years. I have not had any manufacturer's training but do always try to purchase official workshop manuals etc. and fully understand any Fiat car I have. This means I see and understand a limited range of Fiat cars BUT BUT BUT I expect every and every Fiat dealership and their technicians to be well educated in the requirements etc of the models. Even if they have no personal model experience then a pucker Fiat dealership will/should have all the relevant technical information, service, etc data to hand. So when I see/hear of Fiat cars going into a dealership for service/etc and coming out not appropriately catered for I get very very angry. Makes my blood boil!!!!

If you are a recipient of dubious/poor Fiat dealer service (be that sales, parts or service) PLEASE PLEASE tackle the dealer firmly and politely and if you are not IMMEDIATELY satisfied go straight to Fiat UK and raise merry hell. Do not walk away and do press for your rights for quality service, competence etc. from a Fiat UK dealership.

The more we complain about poor/etc service the more likely we are going to get a far better UK wide Fiat/Alfa dealership quality support.

Finally....please don't get me wrong. There are excellent Fiat dealerships out there and they deserve our support. Occasionally even the best will initially let us down but will hopefully respond to eradicate their initial failure and go one or two steps better. At the same time they will hopefully make sure that similar problems/issues do not arise again.

Sadly there are other dealership who's service and aftercare service performance is well below what my rabbits could achieve and these dealerships need to be brought swiftly to Fiat UK notice.

I've not spent 41+ years of buying Fiat cars, supporting them in various owner's clubs etc., to allow ANY dealership to damage customer service, respect and of course the FIAT brand.
 
s130 said:
What you are basically looking/at is the "oil degradation" factor and "distance to next oil change". These are read/reported by programs like MultiECUScan. The same data will be available to professional equipment from the likes of Snap-On and other kit, plus of course Fiat dealer kit.

Because there is no absolute quality measurement then all one can absolutely rely on is having an oil change AND having the oil change flag reset at the same time.

What annoys me about this diesel oil change flag reset is that it appears that even some Fiat dealers are failing to a) do it and b) understand why and how to do it. Many just focus and home in the on "Service" computer and are totally unaware of the separate and independent oil service/change for Fiat's modern diesel engines.

You could all really get me very angry over this. I've owned privately and worked on my own Fiats for 41+ years. I have not had any manufacturer's training but do always try to purchase official workshop manuals etc. and fully understand any Fiat car I have. This means I see and understand a limited range of Fiat cars BUT BUT BUT I expect every and every Fiat dealership and their technicians to be well educated in the requirements etc of the models. Even if they have no personal model experience then a pucker Fiat dealership will/should have all the relevant technical information, service, etc data to hand. So when I see/hear of Fiat cars going into a dealership for service/etc and coming out not appropriately catered for I get very very angry. Makes my blood boil!!!!

If you are a recipient of dubious/poor Fiat dealer service (be that sales, parts or service) PLEASE PLEASE tackle the dealer firmly and politely and if you are not IMMEDIATELY satisfied go straight to Fiat UK and raise merry hell. Do not walk away and do press for your rights for quality service, competence etc. from a Fiat UK dealership.

The more we complain about poor/etc service the more likely we are going to get a far better UK wide Fiat/Alfa dealership quality support.

Finally....please don't get me wrong. There are excellent Fiat dealerships out there and they deserve our support. Occasionally even the best will initially let us down but will hopefully respond to eradicate their initial failure and go one or two steps better. At the same time they will hopefully make sure that similar problems/issues do not arise again.

Sadly there are other dealership who's service and aftercare service performance is well below what my rabbits could achieve and these dealerships need to be brought swiftly to Fiat UK notice.

I've not spent 41+ years of buying Fiat cars, supporting them in various owner's clubs etc., to allow ANY dealership to damage customer service, respect and of course the FIAT brand.
Click to expand...

The most scary thing is that I believe they can use the oil degradation level as a reason not to do an oil change at a service at least that seems to be how the handbook reads ...........
 
s130 said:
Yes the two go hand in hand. Oil change and reset that it.

Personally I don't wait till the oil change indicator wakes up. I target ever 12K so don't get near the 18K.
Click to expand...

There is no mileage for oil change IIRC, its 2 years or when th car tells you too, which ever is sooner.

bravosl165 said:
So take it you can change the oil inbetween services as long as you remember to rest the counter at say next full service. Only askin as car was serviced in Febuary planning on changing oil this week as i have a wee leak and will be getting a full Fiat service again newt Febuary.

stuart
Click to expand...

Not really no, I personally wouldn't be doing this, needs to have the counter reset when oil is changed, its a bit more complex than just resetting an algorithm and ultimately will end in tears eventually if not done correctly, as either your DPF kicks the bucket or you end up getting diesel run on as the oil has been diluted and passed the piston rings / cause turbo oil seals to fail.

s130 said:
Yes you can do as many oil changes as you like without resetting the oil change flag. The only problem you could hit is the same as the original post. The oil change light comes on and you will have to get the flag reset ASAP. If you record your mileage since the last reset and don't gun the engine too hard then it is very unlikely that an oil change will be flagged in less than 12K miles. Even with medium to hard driving etc. then it is doubtful if the change flag will pop up at 15K miles.
Click to expand...

I personally wouldn't be risking it, its not how its been designed to operate.

s130 said:
The only way to predict when a change will be flagged is to use a program such as MultiECUScan when the oil degration factor can be read from the ECU and also mileage since last oil change but this data all depends on a known oil change reset point.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and if people want to change oil early etc, ten they'll probably find getting themselves a copy of FES useful also as they can sort other stuff out, and will be able to reset the oil change degradation counter themselves :)

rossocorsa said:
The most scary thing is that I believe they can use the oil degradation level as a reason not to do an oil change at a service at least that seems to be how the handbook reads ...........
Click to expand...

Indeed, 2 years or when the car says, got 21k out of my Bravo, however I won't be doing that again and am going to be doing 10500k changes (half way between services). I wasn't happy for the last 4k, but wasn't able to get the oil changed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
General Headlamp issue Fiat Bravo 2009 2.0 Multijet 165hp
Replies
1
Views
246
cainy1989
C
B
General Noisy lifters after oil change
Replies
2
Views
230
bsks
B
S
Technical Oil in engine bay
Replies
6
Views
300
bugsymike
B
F
Technical bravo 2.0 lancia delta 1.9 alfa 159 2.4 flywheel clutch interchangeable
Replies
0
Views
134
flisko
F
K
Technical Insufficient Oil Pressure Warning Light When Clutch Is Pressed
Replies
1
Views
328
bugsymike
B
Back
Top