Hey folks,

Im not often on here but thought I'd ask you guys for some thoughts. Im currently looking to buy a new car, currently have a Seat Ibiza which has been a nice car although has had faults. (I like to buy not your ordinary cars). Anyways looking now for a new car and am down to 3 cars. A new Sear Ibiza, Seat Leon or possibly a Bravo.

There's one currently I have seen on sale for £6,200 a Bravo Sport 1.4 150bhp which I have heard is a good car although I have a few questions.

1. Whats the rear visibility like to cope with. It looks a little tricky from what I can see although wondered what you guys thought from personal experiences.

2. I know Fiat has a history of unreliable cars although I hear the new Bravo isn't too bad and wondered if you folks have any major issues with reliability and quality feel and how it drives.

3. Finally residuals on this car, Anyone have any idea what sort of price this car could be worth in 3 years time should I wish to sell it? I expecting around £3000.00 or less perhaps.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Shortride

Shortride said:

2. I know Fiat has a history of unreliable cars although I hear the new Bravo isn't too bad and wondered if you folks have any major issues with reliability and quality feel and how it drives.
Shortride

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YAWN!!

No more or less reliable than any peugeot, Renault, Vauxhall, Ford, Seat etc.

Just as well put together as any of the above.

As far as I recall Fiats have never been unreliable, they did suffer from rust once upon a time, but so did most other cars of the era.

Buy a Bravo and love it!

1. Like most cars with wide rear pillars the visibility isn't excellent, but its not a major problem. Parking sensors could help with walls and posts below the window level, otherwise the window is very close to the rear of the car so no guessing the overhang, and the wing mirrors are massive.

As above, Fiat had a reputation in the 1970s due to a deal with Russia for steel. They sold them designs and in return got discounted steel - but the Russians sold them crap which rusted a bit faster than the other cars of the day rusted. This stuffed the earth points and introduced the legend of the Fiat electrics.

Compare a small Fiat (Cinq) with a similar age small Ford (Ka) and the difference is night and day. The ford will look like a kind of rusty cheese with the number of holes.

As far as I'm aware (and I'm sure some of the experts will correct me so please feel free) Fiat cars were once unreliable for two reasons; Fiat cut corners and bought cheap steel from the Russians which rusted. Labour disputes also meant that Fiat had to train baboons to build cars until strikes were resolved.

This reputation of Fiat largely still lives on, however Fiat group cars these days are built not much better or worse than any other manufacturers cars. Many parts from the new Astra are taken out of the Fiat, and the new Ford Ka is just a tweaked Fiat 500. What this means is that used car values plummet due to brand snobbery and for no good reason, so you can pick up a car with good build quality for much less than the equivalent age/spec Volkswagen/SEAT/Vauxhall/Ford because people think that the Fiat is worse and would prefer to run with the pack. Add to the finacial saving the individuality of the Bravo and its cool Italian flare and I wouldnt want to own anything else (except perhaps an Alfalfa).

My Bravo feels very well built inside and out. In two months ownership I've had to go to the garage to have my recently refitted glow plugs replaced as one was faulty (not a Fiat part, could have happened to any car) and then a radiator replaced (which I personally believe the garage are responsible for as it only started leaking after the glow plugs were replaced), however saying that my Fiat garage have done all work under warranty and have offered much better service than I have observed at the local Vauxhall garages for example. Aside from the radiator issue which wasn't a part failure in my eyes, and the glow plugs which aren't a Fiat part I've had no issues and I drive 400 miles per week.

Rear visibility isnt great but its not horrendous. Parking sensors are available on some of the top end models and I would recommend looking for a car with this option. Options are impressive and handling is OK; people will tell you a Focus or a Golf handles better. At the end of the day I think if people are driving this fast on the road that the subtle handling differences at the limit cannot be tolerated then you shouldn't be driving on public roads in my opinion. The seats are comfy but the position of the pedals isn't the most comfortable, but isn't horrendous or anything. Seating in the back isn't great but I don't sit in the back of my own car so personally it doesn't bother me (but your situation maybe different - kids etc).

I cant comment on residuals down the line. My thoughts are that the Bravo is a rare and attractive car, Fiat/Alfa's reputation is going up not down and there are many Punto owners out there looking to upgrade maybe in a few years time. I dont know really - I paid one third of my cars original price for a '08 150 MJ Sport so in my eyes as I've saved maybe £3k on the equivalent VW/Ford/VX and got a better car I'm already £3k up. If its worth £3k less down the line than the equivalent then I haven't lost out.

Shortride said:

2. I know Fiat has a history of unreliable cars although I hear the new Bravo isn't too bad and wondered if you folks have any major issues with reliability and quality feel and how it drives.

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Really, and you think Seat is better? I think not. How many remember the good old days when they bought designs from Fiat then ruined them by building crap cars.... The Marbella being one

Fiat does not have a history of unreliable cars, and in any case their reputation is far better than Seats. You go and have a seat in a new Seat Leon or Ibiza and tell me they are not the most plasticy boring cars you have seen!

cardinalbiggles said:

Fiat does not have a history of unreliable cars

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Er...Fiat Strada?

Sorry guys, but I think new ages Seats are probably better built than Fiats, their VW's.

I new Fiat owner who is happy but has had two problems after only 2500 miles....

SEATs are built terribly. I've checked them out and they are no where near the quality of a VW. Also, there is speculation that VW is trying to lose/sell the SEAT brand as it's the only loss making division under the VW umbrella. VW are also making an aggressive purchasing move on FIAT, they want to buy the ALFA brand, this move may now be impossible because of the merger with the Chrysler group but there are things going on..........

With reference to the Bravo. It is the best FIAT that has come out of any FIAT factory in terms of quality and reliability. However, as I said, it's the best FIAT, compared to its market competitors, Golf, Astra, Focus, A3, Civic, it isn't better and FIAT still have a long way to go to catch up with the class leaders. There is a but though, and that is, it is better than the Megane, 308, Leon or any other motor in this class that you can think of, it's just the top five are very good, very established and always one step ahead of FIAT, they will never top this class, small cars is where FIAT are at their best.

I'm happy with my Bravo, it does what it says on the tin, it's reasonably pretty and there aren't five million of them on the road like a Focus for example. The only other car I'd have over my Bravo at the moment is the Guilietta.....................

Yeah I think thats a very fair point you have.

I ordered the Bravo because it's different and excellent value for money and I think looks fantastic too.

no offense but you have to be out of your mind for comparing the ibiza with the bravo. that is a horrendously cheap built car with the crappiest plastics one can find outside a tata nano.

the leon is a car that's been around for about two hundred years because they're too poor to design a new model, the bravo is a lot better in every aspect.


The punto evo is much better than the ibiza, the bravo is much better than the leon. it's as simple as that.

I think it will be a very sad day when Alfa is handed over to the Germans.

Whilst the SEAT range do seem to be built from cheaper plastics than their VW counterparts, much of the chassis/engine/drivetrain/transmission components will be the same so the statement that VW's are built better than SEAT's surely only extends to the interior trim?

Andysan said:

I think it will be a very sad day when Alfa is handed over to the Germans.

Whilst the SEAT range do seem to be built from cheaper plastics than their VW counterparts, much of the chassis/engine/drivetrain/transmission components will be the same so the statement that VW's are built better than SEAT's surely only extends to the interior trim?

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I think Alfa are Fiats loss maker so maybe it makes sense to ditch them.

Also the components part is interesting, i am lead to believe (so dont take it as fact) that the six speed transmission in the 165 is the same as the 2.0TDi A3 and the Cooper S.

I had a 2006 Grande Punto which looked fantastic but was full of niggly problems which got on my nerves over time so I sold it for the Bravo.

The Bravo looks much better than the Focus Astra club and has a way better interior than some rivals out there (C4 or Astra).

In terms of reliability the Bravo feels a quality product and is well put together. I've only had it 6 months so far but has been trouble free and will certainly buy another one.

I have found the 500, Panda and Bravo seem to be the best put together from the Fiat range.

Reliability

Seat have always appeared much like Fiat in that you could get a great one, could get a terrible one. For some reason they havn't shook that off even with VW ownership. The interior plastics on Seats i've been in are awful. Fiat use some strange materials in some of their cars, but (Grande Punto aside) it feels durable. Seats plastics (like the Grande Punto) felt brittle.

Other faults with Seats do seem to be reported more frequently than other VW Group cars, so i dunno what VW have done with Seat. No enough obviously.

For build quality & reliability i reckon the Bravo is a safer place to put your money than any Seat. Fiat on the whole is pretty sound for reliability with its current range. The only one that lets it down is the Grande Punto, which somehow seems awful.

Residuals

On residuals i think judging by the price you quoted, the car's already gone through its steepest period of depreciation. From experience of how my Fiats have lost money, it might drop to £4k quite quick but then slow down.

I bought my Stilo at 4 years old for £3950 and over 2 years later they still seem to be selling for £2995, some even more. My Mk2 Punto dropped in a similar fashion.

Obviously it's all mileage dependant but when people say Fiats lose money fast it should really be interpretted as they 'lose money fast when bought brand new'. Once they get to 4 years old they don't seem that bad at all to me.

well my bravo as just gone in for repair,after i reversed into a wall (bad visability!!!)
the courtesy car arrived this morning,brand new Seat ibiza coupe,although a nice car the interior is so cheap looking with cheap plastics and flimsy switches.

i traded in a 57 plate Volvo V50 Rdesign (£28k worth) for my bravo and the Bravo is just as good build quality as that.

i used to but cars that people think are good and have a reputation (BMW x3 etc) but now i would rather buy a car that looks good and is a bit different.
you could always buy a Golf or Focus and get an Iphone and follow the crowd !!1
Give the bravo a Go !!!

1. Rear visibility: Every single review ive read said rear visibility is poor. RUBBISH! its fine. Badge snobbery is rife with motoring journalism. They all think the bloody Golf is what jesus cruises in. Drive one, its the dullest car to be in ever! I used to get bored of my car after about 6-8 months. Had my Bravo for 2 years and still love it.

2. Drove my 1.9 JTDM Bravo to Maranello in July over the St Bernard Pass, it got as hot as 36 degrees and she didnt bother one little bit!!

3. Can't really comment honestly but Bravos are becoming more popular just now as far as i can see.

Only moan i have, and its a small one in my opinion. No place to rest the left foot. You get used to it though.

Since this thread has been started I've been picking up on how chunky the A pillar is - going round some roundabouts I cant even see the kerb. I'd rather have the safety of the thicker pillar though to be honest. When will someone figure out how to make a complete wrap around windscreen I wonder? I've been in a car with a panoramic windscreen that goes back over your head and the difference that that alone makes is incredible.

Andysan said:

Since this thread has been started I've been picking up on how chunky the A pillar is - going round some roundabouts I cant even see the kerb. I'd rather have the safety of the thicker pillar though to be honest. When will someone figure out how to make a complete wrap around windscreen I wonder? I've been in a car with a panoramic windscreen that goes back over your head and the difference that that alone makes is incredible.

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I think thats why we got the cornering lights to be honest, its not to aid visibility its to let others know you can't see the kerb/car coming towards you and are going anyway

Do a quote on a Volkswagen gt tdi 140bhp, then do one on the bravo 150bhp dynamique and you'll no which car to buy. Especially if you use swiftcover.

The bravo overall is a great car, but mine was let down by reliability problems, avoid the 2.0 with the DPF, it drove me mad.

If I bought a Bravo again it would be the 1.4 petrol as they don't seem to have the issues the 2.0 diesel does.