My car was in for its first service and I have my suspicions they never used fully synth oil, firstly they invoiced me for semi synth then back tracked and said it was a mistake then after nipping round the back of the Fiat dealer and talking to the garage they immediatey said it was semi-synth then back tracked when I queried that.

Fiat are not interested as far as they are concerned they are happy that its the correct stuff.

The question is, can you differentiate between semi and fully synth oil? I just dont trust what they have done and the element of doubt is enough to bug the hell out of me. Its not their car, its mine and they should treat it like a f***** princess in my mind when its in getting serviced.

Annoying thing is you go back to the dealer as you want to do the right thin and they treat you like an idiot. Oh my other gripe was they insisted it was 18k intervals as did Fiat but looking at the Bravo handbook on here it says 21k. Pretty annoyed at that as well.

</rant>

I just had a quick search cause I wouldnt have a clue...and found this:

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Seems to explain the difference between the types of oil in a nice wee chart.

Well to be honest you will be hard pressed to tell the difference in the oils yourself you would need to send a sample away to be tested.

But that said you will soon find out, because if they have used the wrong oil then you can expect DPF problems.... so keep all your documentation that states they have used the wrong oil... so if it all goes belly up your covered by there mess up.

Also to note you should be fully synth oil as you know.
direct them here.
http://www.flitalia.it/en/fl/content/view/162/258/

http://www.flitalia.it/en/fl/component/option,com_dspcatprod/Itemid,254/

They should know this being fiat dealer...

Hmmm i wonder if they reset the oil degredation counter also....

You could always ask the reception for the grading specs of the semi synth oil that they have fitted to your car... that will tell you if its wrong, use the grades of the selenia wr pe oil to compare as this is the recommended oil for the car.

Sorry to rant

Omad said:

Well to be honest you will be hard pressed to tell the difference in the oils yourself you would need to send a sample away to be tested.

But that said you will soon find out, because if they have used the wrong oil then you can expect DPF problems.... so keep all your documentation that states they have used the wrong oil... so if it all goes belly up your covered by there mess up.

Also to note you should be fully synth oil as you know.
direct them here.
http://www.flitalia.it/en/fl/content/view/162/258/

http://www.flitalia.it/en/fl/component/option,com_dspcatprod/Itemid,254/

They should know this being fiat dealer...

Hmmm i wonder if they reset the oil degredation counter also....

You could always ask the reception for the grading specs of the semi synth oil that they have fitted to your car... that will tell you if its wrong, use the grades of the selenia wr pe oil to compare as this is the recommended oil for the car.

Sorry to rant

Click to expand...

Well, that may explain the juddering every 100 miles and the almost complete lack of power on 2 occasions since the service (which I put down to the DPF regenerating) although that was only 1000 miles ago.

I need to get a sample analysed, I have no confidence at all in the dealer now. It may just be coincidence about the DPF and the problems I am having but you have me wondering now.

Papa P said:

I just had a quick search cause I wouldnt have a clue...and found this:

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Seems to explain the difference between the types of oil in a nice wee chart.

Click to expand...

Cheers for that, I guess I get a sample sent away to be tested (or get trading standards involved perhaps). You know its a terrible thing when the seed of doubt is planted by a dealer, who can you trust!

It may turn out to be completely fine, but theres just that niggling feeling that they are trying to pull a fast one.

Are you able to name the dealer so that other people go nowhere near such a clueless outfit in future? Bad dealers should all go bust in my mind. I had a similar experience with a Renault a few years ago so this story presses my angry buttons abit!

Well I dont know it is the wrong stuff yet but I have no problems in naming them as it was Arnold Clark, they basically know nothing about the cars. We dont have much choice for other dealers up here in Scotland! I did however buy it down south and not from them, its out of necessity I am forced into using them.

I am quite happy to say that as they told me the wrong service intervals, I mean come on they should know the most basic of things!

Oh, the other thing that got my goat. They assured me it was variable oil servicing OR every year whichever came first for the oil changes. This is not true as it turns out so basically I was tricked into getting something done that never needed done.

I drive pretty economically, I suspect my oil would have gone on quite a bit longer.

The Arnold Clark monopoly in Scotland does seem to cause a few headaches i've noticed. There seems to be abit of variation between branch though, like with alot of big companies i suppose.

It is shameful that they don't seem to know even basic stuff like service intervals, but in their defence i thought the 165 Multijet had variable oil change intervals because of the DPF. A friend who had one got the message up on the display after about 12k to say his needed an oil change, so maybe that's what they were on about?

Even so, i'd guess the oil changes required due to the DPF is not as thorough as a service, so they should really be able to specify the differences to the customer. And if they have used the wrong oil then theyre truly a joke!

The regeneration of the filter involves diesel oil being injected into the sump (ain't life complicated) which burns off the carbon at high temp. Thus it will also burn oil. Hence the variable oil change intervals depending on how bunged up the filter is.

I would guess that the emission control out the back would depend on full combustion of the fully synthetic oil. If you put mineral based oil in it it probably won't work so well and you may end up needing a new DPF. The engine is unlikely to suffer from a dose of semi-synth..its a mass market family car not a Ferrari but it may get expensive in filters.

cardinalbiggles said:

They assured me it was variable oil servicing OR every year whichever came first for the oil changes. This is not true as it turns out so basically I was tricked into getting something done that never needed done.

Click to expand...

it is true. even if you havent done many miles you still change it

what branch was it as they aint all bad

dave said:

it is true. even if you havent done many miles you still change it

what branch was it as they aint all bad

Click to expand...

Sorry that never made much sense. What I meant was they insisted it had to be changed yearly or at 18k no matter what but if it said it needed doing earlier you did it then as well.

My understanding was that you left it until the car told you to do it or every 2 years. This they told me was not the case. Fiat did say that they had done the wrong thing but how many others have had this done when it wasnt needed! Seems to me like someone is trying to get as much as possible from owners.

Was Arnold Clark Perth although Dundee also told me it needed done every service but knew that it was 21k service intervals (so half right)

Its more than pathetic when your average customer knows more about your cars than you do, i guess they are there to sell and have no pride in their knowledge of the product.

What it boils down to is Fiat dealers not following the recomedations from Fiat, Fiat may try and say thats not their fault but its a bloody bog Fiat logo outside each of the branches!

car just reminds you, its not an instead of

you don't wait till oil light comes on before checking levels or wait till temperature gauge is in the red before checking coolant

your car needs oil with ACEA C2 specification
only few full synthetic oils have this spec (Selenia WR P.E.,Yacco VX1703 5W-30,Motul Eco-Clean 5W-30,Castrol Magnatec Professional C2 5W-30, Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4300 5W-40)

if the oil is semi, or full but not ACEA C2 - immediately change

Rustbucket said:

The regeneration of the filter involves diesel oil being injected into the sump (ain't life complicated) which burns off the carbon at high temp. Thus it will also burn oil. Hence the variable oil change intervals depending on how bunged up the filter is.

I would guess that the emission control out the back would depend on full combustion of the fully synthetic oil. If you put mineral based oil in it it probably won't work so well and you may end up needing a new DPF. The engine is unlikely to suffer from a dose of semi-synth..its a mass market family car not a Ferrari but it may get expensive in filters.

Click to expand...

Sorry to be a pain but your statement about how dpf works is incorrect... im just off to work now so i dont really have time to sit here and fill out all the screed but maybe this would better explain it, although ive not read it myself yet.... hehe

http://www.aa-academy.com/Training/Learning Zone/Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).asp

*hopes it right*

Sev said:

your car needs oil with ACEA C2 specification
only few full synthetic oils have this spec (Selenia WR P.E.,Yacco VX1703 5W-30,Motul Eco-Clean 5W-30,Castrol Magnatec Professional C2 5W-30, Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4300 5W-40)

if the oil is semi, or full but not ACEA C2 - immediately change

Click to expand...

Another is Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 Emissions System Protection which is ACEA C2 and C3 compliant.

Omad said:

although ive not read it myself yet.... hehe

http://www.aa-academy.com/Training/Learning%20Zone/Diesel%20Particulate%20Filter%20(DPF).asp

*hopes it right*

Click to expand...

OK Einstein, lets have your dissertation on Bravo 165 DPF regeneration?

Rustbucket said:

OK Einstein, lets have your dissertation on Bravo 165 DPF regeneration?

Click to expand...

Makes a lot more sense than contaminating your oil with fuel.

neilshep said:

Makes a lot more sense than contaminating your oil with fuel.

Click to expand...

Another warrior...do any of you Bravo pilots know how your DPF really works? or are you just going to post generic web pages?

Rustbucket said:

Another warrior...do any of you Bravo pilots know how your DPF really works? or are you just going to post generic web pages?

Click to expand...

How about YOU provide evidence that the DPF works by injecting diesel into the sump - since I've not seen a single article which shows that to be the case.

I think you'll find the reason for diesel getting into the sump is because during DPF regeneration diesel is injected at the end of the combustion phase to ignite and burn in the exhaust to raise the exhaust temp in the DPF chamber, and some of the diesel can bypass the cylinder rings and get into the oil.

Well hellcat has given you all the info... just one bit to add tho.. when the diesel passes the piston rings it then contaminates the oil thus actually raising the oil level and if the oil level goes to high then you have real problems as the engine can then run on its own oil and go pop! hence why the need to have a oil degredation counter and warning on the dash telling you to change you oil.

And should anyone change there own oil you need to make sure the oil level is approx 2mm from the max mark on the dipstick to allow for degredation to take place.