General Just bought a Bravo - your advice appreciated

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General Just bought a Bravo - your advice appreciated

evo149

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Hi, this is my first post on these forums. I bought a used bravo last friday. It's a 1.6 SX on a 1998 S registration with 71k on the clock. I discovered this forum yesterday when i was browsing for information. One thing is for sure, there are a lot of people on here who know their Fiats ;) . I've already learned a lot of things that i wouldnt have known for a while.

The car was bought from a used car garage. The original price was £1299 but I paid £1000 after a part exchange on my old car. Generally the car seems to be in good condition. There are a few corner scrapes on the bumpers but thats it. Interior is clean too. But i am beginning to wonder if this is a good deal or have i been had? There are a few niggles that i have picked up over the last few days about the car. I will try to explain some of these below.

The car came with minimal service history. There are a few garage stamps in the service log, just showing oil changes at regular mileage intervals. Apart from this just a few of the old mot certificates. A quick inspection of the engine bay and the battery looks quite new. I have located the oil filter and that looks new aswell.

Before buying the car i asked the dealer if the cambelt had been changed. He wasnt sure but reassured me it would be changed when i buy. I've been told its changed but i have no receipt for this. Also i only have a verbal agreement with the dealer of a 60 days parts and labour warranty. I didnt press him for a written warranty.

The handbrake is very tight. I have to pull it up quite hard and can just about get one click for it to hold. I was wondering is it possible for me to adjust this from inside the car so that its not so tight and i can get 5-6 clicks as normally on a car?

I've noticed if i wiggle the gearstick left to right in neutral there is a ringing bell type noise underneath the car. It sounds like a loose washer, but what could this be? The gearbox is quite clunky. It squeaks into some of the gears and sometimes difficult to shift into first gear. Could this mean my gearbox is on its way out?

Also im concerned that the dealer might have just filled up the cooling system with water. How can i be sure that 50:50 mix of water and anti-freeze is in the system? Its getting cold now and the last thing i want is a cracked cylinder head etc.

Sometimes the car has a slight shudder when moving off from first gear. It is barely noticeable. But it could be just me not used to the car yet. I am wondering if the clutch is ok too?

The other thing i have discovered from this forum is that i have NO RED Key. When i bought the car i wasnt aware of the red key thing. The dealer just gave me two blue keys and i drove off. Will this knock the price down if i were to sell the car in future? Have i already bought a potential problem car? If i needed to make a duplicate key does that mean im stuck? Could an ECU failure mean the car is scrap metal as i wouldnt be able to unlock or start the car?

My apologies for this long ranting post. But i just tried to squeeze everything into this post for everyones opinion. There maybe a few other things i have forgotten to mention. I will post again. Your views on my purchase greatly appreciated
 
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Hello, I will try and answer some of your questions.

Might be worth getting another independent mechanic to check the Cambelt and tensioners. As if it is new it will be very obvious. pay him a few quid and explain the situation. Also have him check the antifreeze percentage with a tester. all mechanics should have them.
Ask his opinion on the gearbox and ask him to check the gear oil level and to oil the gear linkage. I say this as I don't know your mechanical ability.

Get the dealer you got the car from to alter the hand brake cable. This is unacceptable!

The shudder will most likely be clutch judder. Is common fault and can only be remedied with a new clutch.
As far as i'm aware the EcU can be recoded to the keys for little money. lots of people don't have there red key and most will never ever need it. Although there is a thing called Sods law.
 
Hi. welcome to the forum :)

evo149 said:
The car was bought from a used car garage. The original price was £1299 but I paid £1000 after a part exchange on my old car. Generally the car seems to be in good condition. There are a few corner scrapes on the bumpers but thats it. Interior is clean too. But i am beginning to wonder if this is a good deal or have i been had?

i'll be honest, a good example 1998 model could have been bought privately for less than a grand, but when you buy from a garage you expect to pay a bit extra. if you paid £1000 and you gave a car part ex it could be a bad deal, depending on what car you gave them and how much it was worth?

evo149 said:
The car came with minimal service history. There are a few garage stamps in the service log, just showing oil changes at regular mileage intervals. Apart from this just a few of the old mot certificates. A quick inspection of the engine bay and the battery looks quite new. I have located the oil filter and that looks new aswell.

Service history is often missing reciepts to show what has been done. as a rule of thumb I always ignore the service history and make sure i do a full service myself whenever i buy a car. Service stamps means nothing, you dont know what has been done, if anything.

evo149 said:
Before buying the car i asked the dealer if the cambelt had been changed. He wasnt sure but reassured me it would be changed when i buy. I've been told its changed but i have no receipt for this. Also i only have a verbal agreement with the dealer of a 60 days parts and labour warranty. I didnt press him for a written warranty.

you should always get a reciept. if the cambelt snaps today you have no comeback. the seller will say "what cambelt change?", and you cant prove it was part of the agreement. i would go back and ask for a reciept, and i would loosen off the cambelt cover to inspect the belt, it will be obvious if it is new.

same with the warranty, a verbal agreement is worthless, in fact a warranty in writing is pretty worthless too, but its better than nothing. i would go back and ask for it in writing.

evo149 said:
The handbrake is very tight. I have to pull it up quite hard and can just about get one click for it to hold. I was wondering is it possible for me to adjust this from inside the car so that its not so tight and i can get 5-6 clicks as normally on a car?

pull the plastic gator up from around the handbrake lever. you'll see a big nut at the front, loosen it off and you'll have more clicks.

evo149 said:
I've noticed if i wiggle the gearstick left to right in neutral there is a ringing bell type noise underneath the car. It sounds like a loose washer, but what could this be? The gearbox is quite clunky. It squeaks into some of the gears and sometimes difficult to shift into first gear. Could this mean my gearbox is on its way out?

sounds like loose or damaged gearbox linkages. there are 3 going to the gearbox, i bet one is loose at the end due to a missing or loose nut. i'd check it out. if there is no grinding going into the gears i wouldnt worry about the box. 1st is often a bit stiff to engage if the car is moving, however when stationary it should be easy. i suspect the gearbox linkages will be the culprit in this case.

evo149 said:
Also im concerned that the dealer might have just filled up the cooling system with water. How can i be sure that 50:50 mix of water and anti-freeze is in the system? Its getting cold now and the last thing i want is a cracked cylinder head etc.

but a hydrometer (£1.99) and measure the temp at which your coolant will freeze. i wouldnt be surprised if they used water, i've seen it happen more than once before.

evo149 said:
Sometimes the car has a slight shudder when moving off from first gear. It is barely noticeable. But it could be just me not used to the car yet. I am wondering if the clutch is ok too?

clutch judder usually means the clutch will need changing in the near future. bad news. my 1.6 was the same. i sold it.

evo149 said:
The other thing i have discovered from this forum is that i have NO RED Key. When i bought the car i wasnt aware of the red key thing. The dealer just gave me two blue keys and i drove off. Will this knock the price down if i were to sell the car in future? Have i already bought a potential problem car? If i needed to make a duplicate key does that mean im stuck? Could an ECU failure mean the car is scrap metal as i wouldnt be able to unlock or start the car?

the red key is needed to program new keys into the car. this isnt a masive problem as you can get your blue keys copied at timpsons for £20 each and theyw ill work without the need for a red key. however if your codebox loses the blue key codes you are buggered. that rarely happens, but it happens often enough to devalue a car with no red key. i would never buy one without the red key, i know many people who wouldnt, but if you do you expect to get it cheaper. worst case scenario if you have problems you may need to replace all keys, locks, code box and ecu. if you buy second hand parts and fit them yourself that could cost as little as £100, at fiat it could eaisly be £700-1000+. the other alternative is to get your ecu decoded to disable the immobiliser, this is the cheaper option, and as long as you dont mind having no immob its the best option. there is someone on this forum that can do it for you at a good price if need be.

hope this helps (y)
 
Thanks for the responses.

The car i part exchanged was a Rover 214 1993 shape. I went to another garage and they offered me £150 for part ex. So when this garage offered £300 i thought maybe its ok. Plus the rover had a good few problems, the radiator was rusted and ready to pop. The engine was overheating and had some oil leaks. The exhaust system would not have passed the mot next time round. So i decided to swap instead of spending all that money on spare parts for the car.

The red key business has given me a couple of sleepless nights. At the time of buying the car i didnt even know there were red keys for fiats etc. So i guess its my own fault for not researching the car. I've only got two blue keys. If the codebox did pack up i guess id have to sell the car for scrap because it wouldnt be worth spending a grand for parts when thats the value of the car.

The fuel cap lock i will try again tomorrow. I could hear it clicking last time but i couldnt lock it with the key.

The handbrake i will have another look at and see if i can get the rubber gator up etc.

Warranty wise you are right i wouldnt have much to fall back on if something failed on the car. I could tell the garage guy was hesitant to write anything down on paper for the warranty so i didnt really push him on that.

How many screws would i need to undo to remove the cover so i can check the condition of the cambelt? Will it look new and shiny if its been changed recently? Ive never done this before but i will have a go.

thanks for all the info.
 
I forgot, there is no crunching in the gearbox so far. It just feels a bit squeaky going into 3rd and 4th. The car pulls away quite well and apart from the slight clutch judder i havent had any problem with it yet. Maybe i'm just not used to the driving of a fiat yet ;)

Would a place like Maplins sell the hydrometer? also what temperature should the coolant be showing on the meter ? Before it will freeze
 
it wouldnt be worth scrapping if the codebox did reset. Would make more sence to just get the imobiliser removed and install an aftermarket alarm/imob. that way the car will work as it did before off the same keys. the only difference being that your car will probably have a better alarm/imob than it did before :)
 
evo149 said:
The car i part exchanged was a Rover 214 1993 shape. I went to another garage and they offered me £150 for part ex. So when this garage offered £300 i thought maybe its ok. Plus the rover had a good few problems, the radiator was rusted and ready to pop. The engine was overheating and had some oil leaks. The exhaust system would not have passed the mot next time round. So i decided to swap instead of spending all that money on spare parts for the car.

a pretty worthless car so it hasnt been a bad part-ex deal.

evo149 said:
The red key business has given me a couple of sleepless nights. At the time of buying the car i didnt even know there were red keys for fiats etc. So i guess its my own fault for not researching the car. I've only got two blue keys. If the codebox did pack up i guess id have to sell the car for scrap because it wouldnt be worth spending a grand for parts when thats the value of the car.

as bushboy said, its nothing to worry about really, especially now you have fiatforum to help (y)

evo149 said:
How many screws would i need to undo to remove the cover so i can check the condition of the cambelt? Will it look new and shiny if its been changed recently? Ive never done this before but i will have a go.

the black plastic timing belt cover is held on with torx head screws. if you remove the top 3 you can pull the cover far enough to see the belt. a new belt will have no cracks, no signs of wear, little or no dirt, the outer surface of the belt should be clean and not scored or marked, any wiriting on the belt should be bright white and clear. it should be obvious if its been changed
 
jug said:
a pretty worthless car so it hasnt been a bad part-ex deal.



as bushboy said, its nothing to worry about really, especially now you have fiatforum to help (y)



the black plastic timing belt cover is held on with torx head screws. if you remove the top 3 you can pull the cover far enough to see the belt. a new belt will have no cracks, no signs of wear, little or no dirt, the outer surface of the belt should be clean and not scored or marked, any wiriting on the belt should be bright white and clear. it should be obvious if its been changed



I went to see the dealer today and asked him about the cambelt receipt. Apparently they did the cambelt change themselves so they havent got a receipt to give me. I'm not sure if that sounds fishy.

I also told him to have a go locking the fuel cap. After a short fiddle it didnt work and he thinks it might have been from another car because the key fits but it doesnt lock.

I asked about the red key and he said the previous owner did not have one either. He also reassured me that the cambelt had been changed and the anti-freeze levels were all checked before i took the car.

I asked a mechanic at this Eurostar garage to have a look at the handbrake. He said he could change the handbrake tension from under the car but it would cost £10. So i decided to leave it.

So overall i just have to take his word on everything. But i will try to open the cover and check if the belt looks new. Maybe im just being paranoid about the whole thing (y) .
 
Bushboy said:
it wouldnt be worth scrapping if the codebox did reset. Would make more sence to just get the imobiliser removed and install an aftermarket alarm/imob. that way the car will work as it did before off the same keys. the only difference being that your car will probably have a better alarm/imob than it did before :)


If i ever needed to disconnect the battery, would it cause the codebox to lose its memory? Any other way the codebox could lose its memory?
 
disconnecting the battery will be fine. the codebox tends to lose its memory (or suffer memory damage) during electrical faults which cause spikes, such as a blowing fuse or short circuit elsewhere in the car's circuitry.
its very rarely a problem
 
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