Hi,

1st problem:
after changing wheels and changing the rusty oil sump (of motor oil), my gear lever has a stringy feeling. I mean, if no gear is engaged and you touch it a bit normally it wouldn't stay where you push it (as long as no gear is engaged) but it will come back in the middle. Unfortunately, this is no longer so. It will now just stay where you push it, that is if the motor is cold. It's also quite difficult to get the reverse gear in. After 0.5 mile, things become normal again so if you touch the gear lever then with no gear engaged it will resume its zero position by itself as it should.

What's happened here, any ideas? Is it somehow connected to the changing of the sump? This was done at the garage, so maybe they did fiddle with the gearbox in order to get the sump off?


2nd problem:
By the way, since I changed wheels the starting motor sometimes spins up without turning the motor. It never did this before. I don't now what I did to it, but when I changed front wheels I had to pull at the wheel nuts a lot so (to my surprise) the pull turned the wheel some 20 degrees outwards hm. Don't know if that is related to my first problem (see above).

Help, please? It's Fiat Bravo 1,4 SX 1995 55 kw

Zardo

Hi Zardo, from a recent thread about changing sumps, someone said that bolts in the gearbox need loosened in order to change it. So you should go back to the place that changed it as this will probably be the problem. It's up to them to put it right.

With your starting problem, the position of the wheels sholdn't affect the starter motor (tracking may be affected - does the car drive in a straight line when you let go of the steering wheel, or when you brake?). Beyond that I can't be much help though I think there are a few recent threads about starting problems so have a look around

i think one or more of the 3 gearbox linkages has been bent during sump removal. the alloy metal of the main gearbox linkage (the one with the weight on) is easy to bend and can then catch on one of the others (i've done it on mine before without applying much force at all).

i'd remove the battery and battery tray, then get someone to select each gear while you carefully look at the moving gearbox linkages. if any look like they are touching, even just brushing each other for a split second during a change, you need to try bending one of them so they no longer collide, usually the biggest one with the weight is the one to bend back into place.
as a tip, the weight should bepointing stright down to the floor, when bent it tends not to point perfectly stright down to the floor.

as helz said removing your wheels cant affect the starter motor. however the recent sump change could have disturbed your main earth strap (on front of gearbox) so check that as a poor earth would affect starter motor performance. also try tapping the starter motor with a hammer as then often loosens a stuck pinion gear or solenoid.

and for future reference, loosen all wheel bolts BEFORE you jack the car up. i dont mean take the nuts off, but they should be loose enough to turn by finger before you jack the car up. that will avoid putting strain on the steering and suspension components, and it is safer.

UP!!!

So here's the follow up:

Back sometime in autumn 2006, after inspecting gear box, levers etc. and finding nothing but a lot of oxydation products from the battery located above, I finally went to the garage for this problem. The chief mechanic drove the car, telling me that everything was alright and the gear shifting is "like new". I couldn't believe him. We inspected the gear box and levers again and he told me that nothing was bend, the gear box being far away from the oil sump... and that it wasn't necessary to manipulate anything near the gear box when changing the oil sump. However, he told me that the levers were quite oxydized from some battery leakage above, so he proposed to clean it and grease it... the car was in for some other reason anyway. This was done, but the problem did stay the same. When springtime came, I got the impression that things had improved a bit so I thougt the problem might be temperature related. However, these last weeks the problem became worse, I got the impression having to push the clutch lever hard and harder all the way down (always making sure that the textile mat of the floor wasn't between the clutch and the car) in order to change gears. This change came about very slightly, so I wasn't too sure about my perceivings.

Today, surprise! Being on a 150 km night trip, suddenly after the first 125 km and just at the moment after changing gears the clutch would not come all the way back up any more, instead it hung quite strangely in midair, and was now very soft to push, gears became extremely hard to change, even when the clutch was pushed all the way down it did not became entirely free. So I had to rev the motor in order to synchronize between gears , otherwise I couldn't heave the gear in. Unfortunately it was almost midnight and I hadn't any tools with me so I couldn't do anything about it right at the moment. I just tried to get home (and finally succeded without wrecking the gear box too much, but it was quite a pain, especially at red lights).

So now having told you all this, what could be the problem? Is there something broken or did the clutch wire somehow came loose?

Greetings,
Zardo

Clutch wire

Hello again,

I just inspected the clutch wire: there seems to be nothing broken, no screw is loose. The position of the clutch lever (the 90 ° lever at the clutch) is to its extreme (the prolongation of the wire almost touching the tube of the cooling system) so I thing the clutch is under no tension by the clutch wire at all (as long as nobody hits the food lever of the clutch of course). Indeed, the wire connecting to the food lever is a bit slack, with the food lever still hanging around in mid-air, could it be that it has somehow become lengthened? It is easy to manually push the food lever up to its normal position, but it will fall down again immediately after. When looking under the hood, there is some thicker part of the cluch wire, about 6 cm long, with a circular diameter about 4 cm, is that some internal wire connection? Maybe something has become stretched inside?

Zardo

Hm, I've had a look again so I tightened the wire of the clutch link at its end near the clutch. Strangely, there seems to be at least one other position where the wire can be tightened (about 15 cm away from the clutch) however this spot being right under the battery I didn't manipulated it. Now the clutch comes almost entirely free again, but the foot lever of the clutch is still way too low. Should I exchange the entire link wire of the clutch (from food lever to clutch)? Or should I tighten the above mentionned second spot, too?

Z.

you have a clutch cable? that must mean you have a 1.4 model.

definately try to tension the cable first, it may have come loose and slipped, it also may have frayed so you need to inspect it carefully for damage.

this problem cant have anything to do with the gearstick not returning to centre.

jug said:

you have a clutch cable? that must mean you have a 1.4 model.

definately try to tension the cable first, it may have come loose and slipped, it also may have frayed so you need to inspect it carefully for damage.

this problem cant have anything to do with the gearstick not returning to centre.

Click to expand...

Hello,

thank you.

yes it's a 1.4 model and I have a clutch cable. I tensioned it so the point where the clutch comes is in the same spot again (I even tensioned it a bit too mutch but then I didn't like the feeling of the clutch coming too fast). However, when I carefully inspected the cable today (the gears change fine now) I noticed a break in the plastik part of the cable right where it gets support by some metal part of the clutch before it continues to go up to the clutch lever. At this point, the plastik hull of the cable is a lot thicker, is broken and has lengthened about 3-4 mm...

So should I change the entire cable now or would it be more reasonable to opt for the "wait and see" strategy?

---

Concering the "stringy gear lever": I think you're right Jug the problem of the cluch has nothing to do with the gear lever... by the way, the gear lever problem is there even if the motor is not running and if the clutch is pressed or not. I looked at the manual and I found two things:
1) the gears are SELECTED via some metal bar mechanism which looks fine too me.
2) the gears are PUSHED IN via some gear CABLE. (I'm NOT talking about the cable for selecting the reverse gear). What if this gear CABLE has become lengthened, too? By age, I mean. Could that explain why manipulating the gear lever (with or without hitting the clutch) feels so different since ~ 2006. I mean, I know my car quite well, I bought it new in 1997? I noticed also some rubber sealing which has come loose, it's part of the mechanism at the gear box activated by the gear cable...

greetings,
Z.

i'd wait and see with the damaged cable, but keep a close eye on it.

to remove the sump you would usually loosen off the gearbox bolts and move it slightly away from the engine. doing this can affect the rod and/or cable and can put strain on the connections at both ends.

the gear linkage for the 1.4 can be seen in the attached pic. you are correct, gear selection is controlled by a rod and a cable. the cable is used for gear engagement and the rod is used for gear selection.

the best way to identify the cause of the problem is to disconnect the rod (it pops off at the gearbox) and the cable (bolted on i think) seperately and together. then you'll know of its the rod, cable, or neither (=selector).