I got my 1996 1.4 Brava_SX from Austria from 1,5 years now, i currently live in Romania, i have this problem with my ride quality, i think it's way too rough, so i decided to try and fix it somehow, i've spend 3 hours at 3 different mechanics and the couldn't find a single problem in the back except the After-Market KYB Excel-G Shocks i've got on the car are so hard that makes the ride unbearable, is it normal to be this hard ? they needed a large crow bar to move the rear arm with the shocks connected to it, all the bearings are good on all four wheels, also, there's no play in the rear arms so the bearings in there must be okay, it's just that every time i hit a hole i get a little earthquake in the car, it's very rough, also, in the front they could not find any faults except a little play in the right site arm rear and front bushings and other mechanic suspected the front anti-roll bar bushings (all of them), also, every time i hit a speed bump especially with the wheels steered in any direction (left/right) i get a damped sound, like you would hit a iron block with a rubber hammer only more metallic (the sound it's very insignificative but i hear it everytime), also i get the same sound if i go at a very low speed, IDLE - FIRST GEAR speed (10km/h) and i hit the breaks fully the whole front of the car (nose) swings forward and down ( goes down) and i get also a damped/metallic sound.

I also get this sound when i jack up the car/let it down and when i get 4 people in the car and the back lowers when they get off i get the exact same noise.


Any suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

:worship:

Bump, come on guys, i need to fix this.

that sound is NOT uncommon,

not too sure where you problem lies.. or each mechanic would've found it,

maybe go for softer rear suspension thopugh..??
Charlie


charlie

What sound is not UNCOMMON ? the one in the video ? or the one i'm describing, i really need to fix this somehow, the creaking sound doesn't really bother me cause i don't jack the car everyday, but i bet there's a probleme somehere, i'll go for a softer suspension in the future but for now i need to solve these little problems, i'll try to change the drop links in the near future, i'm a student, and as you know i can't afford spending money on stuff i don't need however i always do that, does anybody have a schematic of the rear break balance device, the one that controls the break force distribution on the wheels, maybe there's something rusted in there i'm still open to sugestions, HELP PLEASE.

I'm very puzzled about this.

There is not much to make noise in there:
The shocks
The T/A bearings
The brake balancer (not it as it is behind a spring, sound is all wrong for that)

The anti-rollbar is bolted straight to the arms and doesn't touch the subframe or body, so it shouldn'n make noise.
Sure the spring isnt broken and rubbing, altough its pretty imposible as it has nothing to hit.

I had hard time with marea when the original springs (-99) were dying as it would bottom out on every speedbump.

Large crowbar to move the arm with shock? You shouldn't be able to move it as the spring is always compressed and ARB is connected.
I needed spring compressors for changing even after I unbolted both shocks to lower the arms while the rear end was in the air.

Lift rear end, unbolt shocks and take the springs out. If the noise is there when you move the arms, it is the bearing.

I'd advise against unbolting ARB to do one side only as on car that old the bolts are rusted all the way through, its easier to rethread the arm when/if you take it out to change the bearing.

Btw, to check the bearings without unbolting anything, you should lift the rear end from center of the springs on the trailing arm, then shake the wheel.

That way the loose spot on bearing doesnt move to a good spot as the weight is still on the arm.

All the bearings are good on all four wheels.

also, what's a T/A bearing ? (ashamed)

I don't really have the clunking noise in the back, i already did the part where i took out the rear shocks and moved the arm, i got not sound, so the creaking sound must be somewhere else, my problem is the clunking sound in the front, i'll deal with the back when i'm gonna buy some softer shocks, they are cheap anyway...

I need more info on the this break balancer, maybe that's making the sound, but i doubt it, while the car is creaking i can feel vibration in the wheels so it can't be from a small piece like that, keep the advices coming, this is really helping me narrowing down to the problem.

thanks Neverth !

My experience with a Brava (2001) is that KYB Excel gas dampers are quite firm, but not excessive. Nearly all front end noises (especially clunking over bumps) are due to worn front wishbone bushes - also on Tipos and I guess Puntos. On my car I have changed these, also drop links, track rods, track rod ends - all over time. Very common areas for wear and noises....

On my Tipo (1995) a lot of crashing from the back end was due to failed subframe mounting bushes - you can find some special "replacement" bushes for the Tipo and Brava/Bravo if you look in the right places.

If you are happy that the rear trailing arm bushes are moving OK then you could work on the brake balance valvce - again on my Tipo this seized up with age and rust etc, I changed mine but I think if you spray it with oil and move it about then you can free it up enough. You will need to take off the rear plastic undertray to fix this.

I was thinking exactly that too.

worn front wishbone bushes !

2 of the mechanics found that, also they suspect the drop links, i'm in a dilemma, i don't really know if i should buy whole arms or just the bushings, the joints on arm ar still great, no play in there, but the bushings....not so good, also my rear subframe mounts look okay last time i checked, the rubber was in good condition, i'll check the break balancer i just need the weather to warm up a bit here in Romania, we just got a little bit of snow and i'd like to do that DYI...

You can't replace the wishbone bushes on their own, only the complete unit. At the same time it can be useful to replace droplinks and maybe track rod ends because you save labour costs and only buy some extra components that should not be too expensive.

My Brava has 150,000 miles and this summer I changed the INNER track rods (linking to the rack) - one of these was worn so I changed both.

You can replace wishbone bushes, but that is kinda pointless as the balljoint is not replacable. And the price difference isnt bad as there is lot less work when changing the whole wishbone.

T/A bearing = rear trailing arm bearing. It is a double bearing, not a bush. Here is image of mine, didn't notice difference while driving, no wierd sounds.

I also cheaped out on replacing the subframe bushes: Rubber

I had rear bush completely separate on my front righ wishbone, only noticed the steering was little wierd, no sound...
Replaced the wishbones on that last year.

I gotta jack up my front tomorrow as I got new knock too, damn -20C

I come with new details about the problem, today snowed pretty good, so it was pretty icy roads, i took the car for a spin, i noticed if i break fully and the wheels lock and the car slides on snow and hits any kind of bump i get that CLUNK, it's the one that i'm talking about, if the breaks are lock in anyway i get that HUGE CLUNK, i noticed if i do this it's way louder, don't know why, maybe it's the wishbone that has the bushes shot that comes from it's place since the wheel it's locked and hits the subframe or what it's bolted on, that's what i'm thinking....any ideas on that ?

Thanks peter, i've specified in the first post i think that my rear trailing arms are in good condition, the wheels aren't inclined all good there.

here's some video of the clunk, keep in mind i hear this clunk when i lock the wheels or on very very heavy breaking and when i go over bumps, i think it's the wishbones moving in there and hitting something, donno what but it's clunking, any ideas ?

Also keep in mind that in the video i'm fast-breaking i'm pumping the pedal to show you guys how and what's happening.

Bebyko said:

Thanks peter, i've specified in the first post i think that my rear trailing arms are in good condition, the wheels aren't inclined all good there.

Click to expand...

Don't think, but be sure.
I changed the rear trailingarm bearings on our 2000 Fiat Palio ( same suspension set-up) a few months ago, I was amazed how bad the right side bearings were, in fact, one of the bearings was completely gone ....
Btw, you couldn't move the wheel by hand....

Bebyko, no more videos please.... you need to change the front wishbones and droplinks for sure, so decide which mechanic you like and which supplier you will use! If you are very unlucky then the main ARB bushes (to the car) could be worn but I think this is not common.

While the front end is dismantled check the track rod ends and also release, check and grease the shock strut top mount bearings.

For the rear end, check it again when you have time but the logical fault sems to be bad bearings in the trailing arm, even if you say they seem OK!

The main thing is to fix common wear issues in the front end....

If it's one thing i hate the most, it's not giving a car problem a proper diagnostic, fiats are so complex that my problems could be caused by a lot of things, i can't just start trowing parts at this car, i need to make sure 100% that the parts i'm changing are the ones causing the problems, and i'm saying that cause i'm a god damn student and as you can imagine i don't have lots of pennies in my pocket, i came here for some advice, now, if you would properly read the posts i've made there's a clear indication that the rear trailing arms are in good nick since i've removed the back springs and the arm was moving freely and i had no rusty hinged noise coming from the berings, i've specified that i can't move the trailing arms with the spring and the shock, my shocks are rock solid, they are gas + oil KYB-EXCELL-G, now, in the back i'm not to worried about that sound, cause the wheels are rock solide maybe it's just the rear break compensator, that can be siezed up sometimes, now for the front, i'll try to make this more clear, i need to know a method to find out what bushes are pretty much dead, it's cheaper to change a bush then to change the whole wishbone, so that's what i was primarily asking, but i thought from all the posts that was pretty clear.

Also, i'm using this forum just to take in account other problems that people encountered so i can keep my eyes open in the future for next problems and any opinion is welcomed, sorry if i misunderstood and attacked you in some way, i'm just mad as hell cause some idiot just completely wrecked the right side of my car out of the blue, and he doesn't even have proper insurance.

Later edit:
Also ! i had a guy with a crowbar under the car for 45 mins checking everything, nothing is wrong, everything looks rock solid, the problem is that the sound appears under load only, the track rods are ok, the pivots in the wishbones are okay, we even rocked the car like mad to check the Anti-roll bar droplinks and bushes, no sound from there, he even checked the engine mounts, i don't think he missed a thing, now that's the thing they couldn't really find anything like that but the noise is still there, when i slam on the breaks and the wheels lock sounds like the wishbone and whole wheel asembly is moving back and hitting the contact points, it's the only think i can think causing that noise.