Technical Brava not starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

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Technical Brava not starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

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Oct 30, 2009
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Alba Iulia
Hi guys neeed heeeelp or i'll push my fiat over a cliff.:bang::bang::bang:
Fiat Brava 1.6 16V 1996.
Ok here goes:
I went to work today had to do some trips with the car, ran fine. Then i let the car on the side of the road. Bought a lambda probe today and went to change it, here comes the problem: Started the car and it was very hesitating meaning the revs got up to 1500 but started droping to about 1000 in about 15 sec,and up again but very uneven run, i was barely able to drove the car in the court of my bureau.
After i changed the probe the car wouldn't start. I can smell gas, i put someone to crank the car and all the leads have spark, but it fires (now and then) runs a little and then dies, done this game almost to the point were the battery is dead, o and if i try to press the gas pedal the rpm goes down instead of up.:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

Had the following things changed all new:
-water temp sensor (2 wires - the one for ECU)
-air temp sensor
-coil pack
-rpm/tdc sensor (i forgot this one)
-lambda probe

Cleaned the following:
-the whole throttle body including the position sensor
-idle speed actuator
-grounding point (the one near the coil pack)
-big black connector underneath the battery


Sry for the mistake in the title. "Brava not starting"
 
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Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Try to disconnect lambda first and run engine. Is running better? Is engine management red light on? If it is read fault with tester. Check RPM sensor, is it gaped correctly, and its connector canr rust due to expoisure.
 
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Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Tried with and without the probe connected to no avail (the car was cold so from what i know there should not be any difference in the runnig, cause the probe "only kicks after a given temp" - Brava manual).
No light is on when i crank it.
Checked the car with tester (althought it wasn't any light on) and gave me the tdc/rpm sensor error, changed it (sry i didn't posted up but also the tdc/rpm sensor has been changed with a new one about one month and the car ran fine, no rpm spikes, until this evening).
Anything else :(:(:(:(.
 
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Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

maybe a very stupid suggestion but have you tried an ecu reset (disconnect battery for some time (30 min), idle for about 5 min, restart and then drive like you normally would).

If that doesn't work than it could also be the phase senor since that is the only vital sensor that you haven't replaced/cleaned.
 
Is not a stupid question, is covering all the angles (thx for that), but i did it after i changed the probe and the matter got worse, before the ecu reset i was able at least to move the car, now if i try to accelerate it just dies.

The phase sensor, is true, i didn't changed it or measure it, i'll try to measure today all the measurable sensors, but for the phase sensor i didn't find an resistance reading in the brava manual, so any ideea what value it should be?
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Update:checked the sensors today, all well, but when i changed the coil pack i checked the leads to the sprak plugs, and they had different ohm's. Now when i checked the leads, only the one for the no. 4 cylinder gave me a reading, the others nothing. I'll see if that is the problem tomorow when the new leads arive (hopefully this is the problem cause else i might do what the title says):mad:.
Be back tomorow with an update.
Btw thx all for the replies.
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Does tester sill show RPM sensor fault? I assume sensor is OK, but check its connector and wiring. Is engine in right phase?
 
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Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

I believe the engine is in the right phase cause else it wouldn't ran before. I have a problem when starting hot it dies for about one month now, so i believe that the leads have finaly gone. Hope that those are the problem they only cost 30 euros.
And for what the sensor goes i changed it and then did an ecu reset and all was fine until the hot start problem apeared.
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Hi guys. I went today and replaced the leads and fully charged the battery, still nothing:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:.
I'm starting to think is the cam sensor, cause petrol is getting in the spark plugs were full of petrol, i now have spark, and no engine start.
The rpm/tdc sensor gave me a reading of 800 ohm (so i believe is ok), the cam sensor didn't read anything and i believe it should.
Do you think is a good bet the cam sensor? And anybody knows what the reading should be on the cam sensor?
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Crankshaft TDC sensor is 575-570ohms according to Haynes. And 0,5-1,5mm gap. I cant find values for CAM (timing) sensor. But both of them CAM and TDC tell ECU when to fire injectors. If you have fuel into valve i suppose they are both fine. I would check wires and connectors from ignition coil to ECU. Did you try to press throttle a little when starting up?
 
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Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

I don't know what else to do, there is petrol inside the cylinders (cause the sparks smell of it), another thing is today after i fitted the new leads and charged the battery i cleaned the sparks, but after trying to start, i took them out again and they where all black again :confused:. The funny thing is the sparks have spark, i put sommeone to try to start the car, and took every lead off the spark and to all i can hear electric arch.:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:
Neither belts are slackened, i cannot see any leaks, oil level fine, coolant level fine, all fine except car won't for the name of jesus start :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

The only thing left to change when it comes to sensors is the cam sensor, i'll do that monday and hopefully that's it, cause else i'm out of ideeas.
O and i tryied with pedal slightly pushed, then pushed a little harder, nothing.
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Could there be something wrong with the fuel pump in the back of the car?
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

I think the pump is fine cause i can hear it switch on when i put the key in MAR position, it makes a "charging" kind of noise for about 3 seconds. And also i have tryied to remove the hose coming from the pump
(the one on the left intake body mounting) and it has pressure.
1581-bleed-01.jpg
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

It seems to me that your Brava's problem has to do with the electrical/electronics system of the car but can't pinpoint exactly what it could be. Like you said the coil is brand new so that's out of the way. Spark plugs and leads are new or cleaned too.
Have you by any chance tried to jump start the car with the ignition in the MAR position and the car facing downhill in first/second gear? Any luck?
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Have you put a meter on the new coil pack? I had a new coil pack and it was a duff one, even though it was brand new.
Any possibility you have had a timing belt jump/slip, so it has just knocked your timing of TDC by a tooth.
Can't see it being a fuel pump as you have wet plugs, have you tried a start up with out the air filter in to give it more air.
Black plugs usually indicate rich mix as does non starting when hot, over rich mix.
When cold car uses a "cold Start" type system where the mix is rich to help start the cold engine, when warm it does not need this "rich" mix, your problem could be the sensor which controls mix or air temp.
Goes back to the days of carbs and manual choke, and trying to start a hot engine with the choke out, result - flood it, and no start!
If you had no spark then your clean plugs would come out wet, sounds to me like it is trying to fire if they come out black (sooty).
Are you sure the new sensors are cabled in right, I remember something about the Lambda probe and having to be careful which wire goes where.
Are you sure the TPS i not stuck in a certain postition, I had TPS problems with my 1.2 and it gave it alsorts of running problems, rough running to non starting on one occasion.
Just a frew thoughts for you which you may have covered already, if so sorry to recap.
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

Hi guys. The Brava started today, but only after it's been towed, after that it started at first key, and keeps starting for how long it remains to see. Don't know what it could be wrong. It started but the hot start problem it's still there. I purchased a fuel filter today, but don't know when i can change it cause it's -10 degrees outside and i might freeze under the car. I'll keep updating this post. If someone has anymore ideeas it could keep post, i'll be checking regulary. Till next time thx alot guys.
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

to Thrisey:
-i checked the coil, is fine around 8000 ohm on the both circuits and max 1 ohm on the socket.
-the belt didn't slip cause today it started, and runs fine, no chocking, knocking or other noises.
-about the rich mix, the air temp sensor is new, and i don't know what is the one for the mix you're talking about.
-the sensors are pluged right, as for the lambda probe i don't know, the thing is the new one has had the same colours on the wires, so choped of the old one and put the new one (it was about half the price without the connector attached) on the same wires.
-the tps it's not stuck it moves when i turn it, also checked it and it gave ressistance, but i don't remember how much sry.
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

1. Be sure that connector/wires for RPM sensor are not corroded.
2. Measure RPM sensor distance to the wheel.
3. Follow battery negative terminal cable
4. When hot start try to press throttle a little.
5. Try to disconect lambda at hot start
6. Check lambda fuse on firewall next to pressure sensor

Only few my suggestions
 
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Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

1. Be sure that connector/wires for RPM sensor are not corroded.
2. Measure RPM sensor distance to the wheel.
3. Follow battery negative terminal cable
4. When hot start try to press throttle a little.
5. Try to disconect lambda at hot start
6. Check lambda fuse on firewall next to pressure sensor

Only few my suggestions

1.Checked they are fine both the mother connector and the connector from the sensor itself.
2.Measured it it's a little bigger then 1mm (the 1mm gap tool shakes a little)
3. Not yet checked.
4. I tryied but it stays only if i keep it reved for about 2 sec and then let go, the rev's drop but stay afterwards.
5. Tryied, to no avail starts the same.
6. Not yet checked.
 
Re: Brava bot starting (reply quick pls or the fiat jumps off a cliff)

I do not understand your english under point 4. So if you hold throttle car runs or cut off?
 
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