Greetings,

i've owned a blue bravo 1.6hlx for 8 months now and have been very impressed with it (a vast improvment on my old 1.4 astra!) but i have recently started hankering for more power, (saying recently i mean since my mate bought a punto gt and kicked my ass all over the road). So i have been looking at the bravo 155 hgt as a replacement and was hoping to do some ass kicking of my own, but before i comit i need to know just how these two cars compare, the performance figures seem very similar, but how does this translate to the real world? does anyone know? help!

many thanks.

Get a fiat coupe!

Still needs to be fairly practical... i see where youre coming from though... 2.0 20v turbo v 1.4 8v turbo he he.

Sammiboo on here (sammi) just bought one and took me out in it, it's awesome, it could fit 5 people in at a push too (actually a fair bit of room in the back!) although I am not sure what the boot is like. THe 2.0 20v t allows out 220BHP - 6.something 0-60 and top end over 150mph, it's fast! It's also such good value!

If its more power you are wanting - I would suggest a JTD tuned up from Angel Tuning

Could i ever forgive myself for buyng a diesel, if i could wipe the smile of me mates face then yes... but then what!?! both are valid points though.

Oi Wadey its me - LJB. Ive signed in! Tuned diesel, its still diesel! Will neva compete with the bravo hgt or punto gt!

SPeak to Nige with his:

Alfa Romeo 156 2.4 JTD SportWagon(215BHP)

its so true, that said LJB yours is goin nowhere in the garage is it!!! ha ha ha

LJB said:

Oi Wadey its me - LJB. Ive signed in! Tuned diesel, its still diesel! Will neva compete with the bravo hgt or punto gt!

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Oh dear, how misguided! I had a Bravo HGT 155, the slowest car I have had out my last 4 (the other 3 are JTD's!). The Punto GT is a different animal though as these are easily modified

Dont ge tme wrong, the HGT is a fine car, just a pain in the ass when it comes to eeking more out of it to get it to keep up.

How did u get 215bhp outta 2.4 JTD??? What bin done (standard power in my book says- pre 2002= 136bhp, post 2002 150 bhp). It says 9.5 to 60 so bye Alfa diesel and plus heavy 1385kg!

I dont believe ur 3 JTDs were quicker then ur Bravo hgt, how much tunin must they hav had, even chippin accountin for up to 35% increase that not enuff power to beat the bravo hgt compared to its jtd versions!

Give me power and weight figures- even 215 bhp in 1385kg Alfa 156 only gets 155 bhp per ton- not bad but easy get much more in punto gt per ton.

Any proper performance enthusiast i talk to round here only believe in petrol!

wow. alright lads? just a quick question then how come bravo hgt's so hard to tune, power increase from superchips etc seems to be about the same a anyother mainstream motor. (not turbos) the increase only probly seems more in a diesel cus they're so pis poor in da first place.

also how quicks a 130bhp jtd punto?

Lorddean said:

wow. alright lads? just a quick question then how come bravo hgt's so hard to tune, power increase from superchips etc seems to be about the same a anyother mainstream motor. (not turbos) the increase only probly seems more in a diesel cus they're so pis poor in da first place.

also how quicks a 130bhp jtd punto?

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The HGT 155 has a gel packed ECU - you want to try taking that apart and putting a chip in it? Thought not!

As for the JTD increases (well I think thats what you asked, difficult to understand plygrnd spk when you are over 30!). Have you not heard of diesel remapping?

Very simply we take the even the 136bhp 2.4 JTD to just under 200bhp, however I run the later 140 engine with a few other "tweaks".

Punto JTD figures - this was a WET session, two up with a full tank and my poor clutch control lol!

RUN 1 (PRE TUNING)

mph s g ft hp
10 1.3 0.41 8 24
20 2.7 0.24 40 30
30 4.77 0.25 114 48
40 6.76 0.19 217 51
50 9.84 0.16 418 59
60 13.43 0.1 711 54

RUN 2 (PRE TUNING)

mph s g ft hp
10 1.19 0.45 7 27
20 2.45 0.31 36 38
30 4.3 0.25 104 49
40 6.36 0.17 210 48
50 9.28 0.15 402 56
60 12.83 0.14 691 69

RUN 3 (POST TUNING)

mph s g ft hp
10 1.04 0.44 7 28
20 1.92 0.5 28 66
30 2.92 0.3 67 63
40 4.38 0.3 146 86
50 5.9 0.24 253 91
60 8.07 0.19 438 96

RUN 4 (POST TUNING)

mph s g ft hp
10 1.06 0.45 7 29
20 1.88 0.57 26 74
30 3.01 0.24 71 50
40 4.43 0.3 148 84
50 6.27 0.21 279 81
60 8.14 0.2 441 100

I am not giving you the dry session as you wont beleive it anyway, you will have to come out for a ride . Oh and even if the above only just beats the HGT....... <whisper> the Punto does 52mpg, my HGT only ever crept above 22 if the wife drove it!

I am not going to slag off the Bravo, its a bloody good car and I am Chairman of the Bravo Owners Org (www.fiatboo.co.uk) and the original scribe of the Bravo Owners Guide (now part of the above) I also had a HGT 155 from new for 2 years and did 48,000 miles in it so I do tend to know my Bravo/a's - especially the HGT.

My point was that the HGT is difficult to eak more more power out of AND I did say the Punto GT was a different animal.

However one last point - as everyone knows, its not BHP that shifts you off the line its torque - look up the torque of the HGT v 320lb ft torque in the Alfa....

Well said Nige

Back to the original question, lol. I now own two cars, one diesel, one petrol.

The 2.2JTD has now been tuned up to around 165 or so bhp [from about 122 standard] - this takes the car to under 10secs 0-60, which is not bad for a massive MPV

I also have a 2.4 20V lump in the Stilo, which is about to be tuned up to just under 190, together with a CDA airbox - I can't wait to see the road tests on that.

Paul is right about the Coupe, but for me it wasn't an option - I needed a newer car, not an older model [was it 2000 they stopped making them?], plus with the amount of mileage I do on the commute, which added to increased fuel consumption, would be a killer - I would probably kill the car within 3 years, lol. Plus not very practicable for getting cars seats in the back [yes, yes, I know it could be done, but when I am constantly switching two kiddy seats betweeen cars, I don't want any hassle!]

The choices are yours - in no way dismiss the diesels

To shift off the line aint just torque- try torque as well as power, weight, traction, they all add up together not just one of them.
I was tryin to say before that u cannot compare diesel with petrol for power!
Ur comparing the top performance diesels, like ur alfa, but if u compare with top petrol then diesel is well behind- an impreza WRX would not have any trouble!
Has any naturally aspirated diesel made 100bhp per litre? In fact has a turbo diesel even done it, cos loads of petrols do it!

N/A = Honda S2000= 120bhp per litre (243 bhp outta 2 litre engine)!
Toyota Celica 190= 105 bhp per litre (189 bhp in a 1.8)!
... there are quite a lot!
Turbo = Seat Leon Cupra R 225= 125 bhp per litre (225 bhp in 1.8turbo)!
Subaru Impreza WRX= 138 bhp per litre (276 bhp in 2.0turbo)!
Top of range new Spec C= 167 bhp per litre (335bhp)!
Nissan 200SX S14= 100bhp per litre (200bhp in 2.0 turbo)!
Japan S15 model 125 bhp per litre (250bhp)!
Ford Focus RS= 106 bhp per litre (212bhp in 2.0 turbo)!
New Mitsubishi evo FQ400 (my fav)= 200bhp per litre (400bhp in 2litre turbo)!
...adain loads!

These are standard figures too, tunin would increase more even with the modern nat aspirated jap engines, and the turbos, well u can tune like crazy (930 bhp evo - show me a 2 litre diesel do that)!
By the way= jap cars rule (even though i own a fiat punto gt, while it is quick, tuneable, and fun, when finished with it/bored am goin jap again, cant beat their reliability and performance mix)!

ignoring ljb for a moment...


Ok, that's alot of information to digest, the only thing (now that performance is evedently no longer a diesel issue) that would concern me starting out with a diesel model is the relatively low specifications these models tend to have, not just in terms of toys, i think we all know how relaible these can be, but in terms of brakes, suspension, steering etc its all well and good having oodles of power but if you cant control it then whats the point?

surely only the performance models like all the hgts and gts etc get the better suspension and chassis etc to handle the power! So u tune ur diesel and it dont handle, wastin power anyway!

All valid points, however you said..

"Oi Wadey its me - LJB. Ive signed in! Tuned diesel, its still diesel! Will neva compete with the bravo hgt or punto gt!"

Compete - yes, very easily, compare no, you can't.

A Bravo JTD can compete with a Bravo HGT though after just £300, so to compete - yes indeed I think they can. I replied to your question, not your defence.

Lastly you mention tha handling on the HGT hmmmm ever tried driving one fast round a roundabout? Like I said, great cars but there are a lot better ones - the Punto MK2 is streets ahead of it - and so it should be having being designed 5 or 6 years after it.

On the brakes though, you will find that most of the brakes on the JTD's are the same as the top spec models the suspension usually has stiffer springs because of the weight.

Where in Deadhill do you live? I lived in Meadvale for a while, used to drink in the Chestnut up at Earlswood and what was The Albatross and the Elm Shades. Used to get kicked out of 'Mares by the Station most weekends too (is it still called Millionaires - what a run down ****e hole that was lol!)