Hi all,
I have a 98, 1.8 Bravo, and yesterday a red light appeared on the dash board. The icon is like a rectangle (on a 45 degree angle), with 3 dotted lines coming out of it at the bottom, like a spray. Tried looking around but can't find an image of it anywhere, not sure if engine management or injectors.

The car continues to run fine. If I stop for a few minutes, the lights stays off for perhaps another 5 minutes.

Called the AA yesterday and as it has old plugs he couldn't connect his reader to it, so reset the ecu by removing the earth. Drove the car today and 5 mins later the red light back on but the car seems fine, no loss of power, no mis-firing etc. Parked up, drove back home later on (about 7 miles) and no red light.

1) Any ideas what the icon is?
2) Any ideas on why it's appearing?
3) Could it be a common fault?
4) Is it worth paying £40-£50 for a test at a garage. Don't really want to pay lots of money since it's getting old now, but I did have to get the cambelt, spark plugs, new exhaust all last year

PS- about a month ago I realised oil was leaking so had to get a new slave cylinder added. Topped up with lots of oil, not sure if that could a problem? The oil was a lower grade as I wans't sure what to put in the car, and the guy at the counter said you can't go wrong with the lower grade/numbers stuff, and it was better to go lower than higher. As I said it's been about a month, and I've done about 400 miles since that change. Could it be connected?

Many thanks.

Thats the engine management light. Sorta looks like a haridryer right?

From your description, the car still starts ok?

Will probably need to get to a garage if there seems nothing wrong with the drive.
Dont know what you mean about the old plugs, I would have thought they could fit it if it was standard?

Steve H said:

Thats the engine management light. Sorta looks like a haridryer right?

Click to expand...

Yup that's the one

Steve H said:

From your description, the car still starts ok?

Click to expand...

Yes, the car starts fine.

Steve H said:

Dont know what you mean about the old plugs, I would have thought they could fit it if it was standard?

Click to expand...

The AA guy said that years ago different manufacturers used to have their own plugs that weren't compatible with each other, they then decided to standardise it and have one plug, but on the Bravo I have it's a circle 3-pin (I think), and the AA guy couldn't stick his reader in to it His device had a rectangle shape I think.

Is it worth getting an oil change done at the garage, or do you really think that wouldn't affect this, and it's something else?

that light simply means the ecu is detecting a fault. there are literally several thousand possibilites. withint any symptoms to help we cant guess what the fault is, so a diagnostic is needed.

humpyg said:

The AA guy said that years ago different manufacturers used to have their own plugs that weren't compatible with each other, they then decided to standardise it and have one plug, but on the Bravo I have it's a circle 3-pin (I think), and the AA guy couldn't stick his reader in to it His device had a rectangle shape I think.

Click to expand...

that is true, your age of car is from before OBDII or EOBD connectors, so the vast majority of readers on the markets wont work with it. however there are several that will work, so you dont need to go to a fiat dealer for a diagnosis, although imo the fiat examiner machine they use is by far the best for you car.

humpyg said:

Is it worth getting an oil change done at the garage, or do you really think that wouldn't affect this, and it's something else?

Click to expand...

there is a seperate light for oil pressure problems, so it cant be that.

Thanks, I've got the car booked in to a garage to do a test now. One was charging £70-£80, so went with one charging £45/hour and they said it'll take 30-60mins to check it out... just hope it's something minor, fingers crossed.

Also the red warning light your getting is not the engine management light, its the injector light. Big difference between the two. Injector light looks like an injector spraying. Oh and its Red in Colour. The engine management light looks like an engine block with a propeller on the top and the left side. Oh and its Orange in colour.

humpyg said:

Thanks, I've got the car booked in to a garage to do a test now. One was charging £70-£80, so went with one charging £45/hour and they said it'll take 30-60mins to check it out... just hope it's something minor, fingers crossed.

Click to expand...

It'll actually take them a min or two to get the code from the car, but hey you wouldn't hand over £45 for 2 mins work would you, so its got to look like your getting something for it. Pity your car isn't ODBII compliant the readers are only £60-£70 and you can check it yourself.

JoskeJTD said:

Engine Warning Symbol

Injector Warning Symbol

Click to expand...

Yes it's the injector warning symbol as above, however the car doesn't seem to have an engine warning symbol, so not sure if :

a) they're combined on this model/age of car.
b) the orange engine warning light does not light when the ignition is first turned on.

The AA man had said it would only take a few mins but to be honest I don't know any garage that would do it for free, or a small fee (unless they were you're mate) so I think £45 is reasonable.
---

I should also add that I've now done 16 miles in the car and the light has NOT came on. All of this mileage I've kept the speedo under 40mph

Have you tried injector cleaner like forte? Stick it in the fuel tank, fill it up and run it down. It could also be a temperature switch fault, check the resistance for each injector. Do a search jug has covered this many many times. This will pinpoint the faulty one.

humpyg said:

Yes it's the injector warning symbol as above, however the car doesn't seem to have an engine warning symbol, so not sure if :

a) they're combined on this model/age of car.
b) the orange engine warning light does not light when the ignition is first turned on.

Click to expand...

the answer is a)
the injection system fault light is the engine management light.

humpyg said:

The AA man had said it would only take a few mins but to be honest I don't know any garage that would do it for free, or a small fee (unless they were you're mate) so I think £45 is reasonable.

Click to expand...

it usually costs more tbh, even if they cant find any fault codes.

jug said:

the answer is a)
the injection system fault light is the engine management light.

Click to expand...

I'll agree with you but only on the diesels not petrols as the evidence is right in front of me. Im looking directly into the owners hand book at the answers. The Injector light on a petrol is problems with the injection system not working properly.

The petrols have there own engine management light, the diesels do not. The symbol i showed above is for engine management warnings and is amber when lit.

Reading further down the Injector warning light description in the manual it states "Ocassional brief switching on of the light has no significance" WTF??? What sort of answers that. Why does the light flicker then

Anyway good luck and hope you get it sorted.

JoskeJTD said:

I'll agree with you but only on the diesels not petrols as the evidence is right in front of me. Im looking directly into the owners hand book at the answers. The Injector light on a petrol is problems with the injection system not working properly.

The petrols have there own engine management light, the diesels do not. The symbol i showed above is for engine management warnings and is amber when lit.

Click to expand...

no not only only diesles, all models.
100% definately on my 1.6 and 1.8 there was no engine management light at all, not even the symbol on the cluster. same for my 156.

the only bravo or brava models i have seen with an engine management light did not have an injector light at all.

it changed to the engine symbol to follow other manufacturers, but before that every fiat and alfa used the injector symbol instead of the engine symbol.

does anybody have both?

the fuel injection management system is the engine management system, the only difference is that ignition timing was added to the management system when distributors were replaced in the early 90s. fiat took nearly a decade to react to that change with the symbol they were using.

i believe the mk2 punto was the first fiat to use the engine symbol, and the 147 was the first alfa.

Seems confusing. I do however have the MK2 manual.

I can't remember if my 1.8 had either as no warnings ever came up, plus i didn't tend to look at warning lights at start up. I know the 1.2 has the engine management light, not sure if it has an injector light though.

My JTD only has the injector light, i'll go see if i can see an engine light hiding on the cluster, as i remember my 1.8 had a glow plug light on it but never lit as it was a petrol car but when the sun hit the cluster just right you could see all warning symbols.

I've been down and checked the oil level (just as I needed a new slave cylinder a month ago, and topped up the oil), since down about 500 miles.

However, the oil seems to be way over the max. My dad who put the oil in says any excess is just burnt off, but now thinking that there's too much in there. Will get a oil change (I don't want to drain it myself), but everyone's pretty certain that too much oil wouldn't bring this light on?

Red light only seems to come on at high speed, 16 miles drove so far at speeds of up to 40mph and no red light...

PS - off to get the injector fluid that was recommend and will top up with petrol now.

humpyg said:

My dad who put the oil in says any excess is just burnt off.

Click to expand...

no, the excess damages your valve stem oil seals leading to oil consumption that costs a lot to repair, and in some cases it causes the oil to foam leading to very serious overheating damage. overfilling is an easy way to kill your engine. drain it asap.

Well its kind of weird because I checked the oil three times and it seemed way over the max. Took it to Quik-Fit and for an oil service and they said the oil in there to begin with was at the right level. Still, probably better getting it all done.

Off to have a MOT tomorrow. I'm delaying with the diagnostic test just to see if the oil or injector fluid I put in the fuel tank helps... but if it fails the MOT, then might have to think about getting the test done and go from there.

Done 40 miles now, red light only comes on and stays on when I seem to go above 50mph. Stay around 40-45mph for the full trip and it's fine. No misfiring and no strange behaviour other than the light...

Well 350 miles later and the car's still fine.

It just had the diagnostic test this morning and it's came back as O2 / Lamba sensor. Garage said £88 to get the part, £145 for everything inc vat.

- Can I get this anywhere cheaper? or should I go to scrapyards?

- Is it easy to fit, I haven't done anything in the engine bay before, not mechancial at all, is this an easy or difficult job, in other words, do you think I could do it, or best to let the garage do it?

- Is there 2 sensors or just the 1? (car is a 1998 1.8 Bravo)

I guess this fault is better / cheaper than some of the other faults if could have been.

Thanks

humpyg said:

- Can I get this anywhere cheaper? or should I go to scrapyards?

Click to expand...

no point getting a scrapyard lambda sensor. a new one is £40 at your local motor factor.

humpyg said:

- Is it easy to fit, I haven't done anything in the engine bay before, not mechancial at all, is this an easy or difficult job, in other words, do you think I could do it, or best to let the garage do it?

Click to expand...

it isnt in the engine bay, its on the exhaust just before the cat. a spanner is al you need to get it off, although i always use a blow torch to heat it up first to prevent damage to the fragile threads on the exhaust.

humpyg said:

- - Is there 2 sensors or just the 1? (car is a 1998 1.8 Bravo)

Click to expand...

1 sensor.

JoskeJTD said:

Have you tried injector cleaner like forte? Stick it in the fuel tank, fill it up and run it down. It could also be a temperature switch fault, check the resistance for each injector. Do a search jug has covered this many many times. This will pinpoint the faulty one.

Click to expand...

I have the similar problem with My Coupe 20v turbo..Red Injector light keeps coming on,But when the Light comes on,The Fans Kick in.. but if u turn off the ignition for 3 seconds then turn over again,It resets and runs fine for the next 10 mins,Or sometimes upto two hours before it repeats its self..i had Diagnostic check.it brought up Debimetre and Lamba Sensor,But unsure what a debimetre is??? any1 kno??? so im goin to change the Lamba sensor,also it Surges up and down from time to time as though the Choke is turning on and off.. if any1 has any ideas,Id be greatful to hear them cheers

it sounds like the temp senser for me, get your self over to the fcc forum, there is a guide on the injector light that will tell you all you need to know

iirc its two temp sensors giving results that disagree with each other, it spins up the fans as a precaution