General Bravo 100TD tickover problems

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General Bravo 100TD tickover problems

iT0113

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Can any of you who are more technical than me help with a problem with my 1.0TD 100. It starts fine but will not tickover properly at first. If I hold it on the throttle at about 1000 revs for 20-30 seconds the revs suddenly rise and it will then tickover, not well but without my needing to keep my foot on the throttle. It then seems to drive OK, though as I am new to this car and diesels I can't be certain. There is a fast idle lever on the injector pump which is pulled by a cable operated by a diaghragm but this does not pull in until the car is warm and running OK and some time after the revs rise which I mentioned earlier. Operating it by hand when cold has no effect. Is this operating correctly? And if so, or not, can anyone shed any light on what may be happening here?
 
Can any of you who are more technical than me help with a problem with my 1.0TD 100. It starts fine but will not tickover properly at first. If I hold it on the throttle at about 1000 revs for 20-30 seconds the revs suddenly rise and it will then tickover, not well but without my needing to keep my foot on the throttle. It then seems to drive OK, though as I am new to this car and diesels I can't be certain. There is a fast idle lever on the injector pump which is pulled by a cable operated by a diaghragm but this does not pull in until the car is warm and running OK and some time after the revs rise which I mentioned earlier. Operating it by hand when cold has no effect. Is this operating correctly? And if so, or not, can anyone shed any light on what may be happening here?

Am guessing the lever on yours is a thermostatic control. The coolant temp determines the lever position.

I'm away from my diesel at the moment so can't check the operation just now.
It should work by being pulled over when cold and released when hot (I think-unless vice versa)
have not really needed to look at the oeration before.

Run the car up to temp and then stop the engine. re start Does it still idle low, idle should when warm be around 800rpm ish. If so then it won't be the fast idle lever.

I would ensure that you run some diesel cleaner through the system and ensure that the airfilter and diesel filter in particular are clean. Also drain any water off the diesel filter housing. :)

How does it start? on all 4 ? or for a few seconds a bit lumpy ?
 
Thanks to all who have replied, especially Bridges.


Am guessing the lever on yours is a thermostatic control.

I guess the same. It is the one on the top which is operated by a cable attached to a diaphragm operated by a solenoid on the firewall. The solenoid has three vacuum inputs, the lower two of which are used; one going to the brake vacuum pump. The top one has a blank on it. I suppose the solenoid is operated by some temperature sensor, either directly or via a management system.


It should work by being pulled over when cold and released when hot (I think-unless vice versa)

I would really appreciate some confirmation of whether the cable is pulled when cold or hot. Mine pulls when hot - which may be incorrect.

Does it still idle low, idle should when warm be around 800rpm ish.

If started immediately after a stop it is fine, or at least as fine as it was before as the idle when warm is a little erratic. I have had to increase it to about 1000 revs to stop it varying. From cold it will stall unless I keep my foot on the accelerator for a minute or two until the revs rise before moving off.

The air filter is new (for the recent MOT) but I have not had the courage to replace the fuel filter yet (which I have) for fear of the difficulty I may have bleeding the system. I may have to bite that bullet now.

How does it start? on all 4 ? or for a few seconds a bit lumpy ?

The lights on the dash, including the glow plug light operate correctly. It then starts and runs fine (or it seems OK to me - I am new to the car as you might have guessed.

Regards
__________________
 
the cold advance solenoid pulls in when warmed up. you should check for any possible air leaks in the fuel system. try opening the bleed screw on top of the injector pump and pumping the hand primer pump (with the ignition on). any air bubbles may indicate an air leak somewhere, which can cause these sort of problems. You could use a piece of clear pipe in the pump feed line to rule this out. Is there any smoking when cold or hot ?
 
I'm working off a Peugeot XUD engine with a Lucas pump. I think it's the same pump fitted to the 100Td.

The fast idle is controlled slightly different on my engine.
if I pull on the lever it increases revs. It however (on my engine anyway) is not needed unless quite cold.

I suspect that the glow plug circuit is at fault. Initially I was thinking that you had air in the system but Stylers has already advised on diagnosing and solving this issue so I will offer another possibility which is following on from where I think Jug was heading.

When you turn on the ignition and illuminate the glow plug light, the light remains lit for say 5-10 seconds. The glowplugs however remain heating for another 15-20 seconds though. Even though the light has gone off. It is a good practice on cold starts to wait a few seconds after the light has gone off before attempting to start. This will allow better cylinder heating which will allow for easier combustion. (If you listen once you've turned on the ignition powering the glow plugs and once the light has gone out about 15seconds later you can usually hear the glowplug relay click indicating them shutting back down)

Now. On colder starts even after the glow plugs have powered down after their full 30 odd second duration and the engine is running.
The glowplugs remain powered up. Not at full heat but about 50% they remain like this for 5 or so mins.
This is to help aid the engine to get up to heat.

To test that this second cycle is occuring use a volt meter or a cheap screwdriver with a light inside and an earth wire from it. Start the engine normally. wait a few seconds then place the earth on the battery negative and the positive on the glowplug wire. (you will see it goes from one plug to the next and is attached by 8mm bolts) By placing the screwdriver tip on any exposed part of this circuit it will tell you if the plugs are recieving power. :)
try again a bit later and you should no longer recieve power.
 
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Thanks Stylers. You have confirmed that my cold starting solenoid is working correctly, or at least the same way as yours. There is no smoking on tickover or running, hot or cold, apart from a few puffs on starting. I will replace the fuel filter tomorrow and, hopefully, rule out air and water in the fuel system as the cause.

Thanks for your input Bridges. The pump is a Lucas 109, at least that is what it says on the tag, but in pulling the lever it makes no discernible difference. I have checked the glow plug circuit and I thought it was OK. The light is on for around 5 seconds but plugs have power for a further for a further 10 seconds or so. There is a ticking from the plug controller until the dash light goes off and I can hear the relay drop out as the power goes off. The fact that starting is fine and the tickover problem is there from the start, even while the plugs are still heated made me not suspect the plug circuit. They are not staying on for anywhere near 5 minutes though it is hardly cold at the moment.

Even when it is running OK the tickover is fairly stable (at 1000 revs) until I put a load on the engine, say by putting the lights on or put the the power steering under load as in parking (or even when the fan comes on). At such times the revs drop and there is a tendency to stall.

If it is not raining again tomorrow I will have another go at it.

Regards
 
Well I've changed the fuel filter at great cost to my skinned nuckles and the problem is still there. I am scratching my head as to what to do next.

Ian
 
glow plugs SHOULD be doing there second cycle. Mine did yesterday ;)
when mine comes off its second cycle the engine becomes audiably rougher.
However is ok as by this time it's been running for 5 or so mins and is upto temp. I will bet that this is the problem ;)

When the engine is upto temp it does not require the 2nd cycle.
This would explain while yours starts fine after a little run.
 
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Thanks Bridges. I am sure that you are right and I will be checking for a problem in this area but shouldn't it tick over OK until the plugs go off? Mine is bad from the start even though, according to my meter, the plugs are still live.

regards IT
 
yes, technically it should. unless a plug is down.

Next time you start.. Give the glow plugs 2x warm ups wait for the relay to click off after the 1st. turn ignition off and turn back on then wait for the relay again to click off. Now start Does it start and then run any better?

It might be time to test the glow plugs. Is easy :)
 
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Thanks Bridges. I tried that and it made no difference. This one may be headed for the garage.

Regards IT
 
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