Hi all,

first post so apologies for not knowing a right lot but here goes.

I bought a 1997 (P reg) fiat bravo 1.6 SX a few days ago... i got it in the knowledge that it wasn't working...maybe not the cleverest thing i've ever done!

I ride motobikes usually but want/need the use of a car as and when and although i don't no a right lot about cars wanted to have a play and see if i could get it running!

After seeing all of the problems with bravos on this site the first thing i did was change the ecu, immobiliser and barrels to set for which i do have the red key. Problem 1 sorted, i thought! If i put the key in the ignition the code light comes on and goes off after 2-3 seconds which seems to be right.

The battery was one bought by the previous owner which seems to be fine, although it's got a 4 year warranty so i'll get them to check and replace as necessary.

What should i check next, i've checked all the fuses i can get my hands on and all semm to be working, all the electrics ie sunroof, windows, lights, radio are working without fail but the car just won't start!

When you turn the ignition is sounds like it's trying to start but just won't fire up, really demoralising!

Any help greatly appreciated and thanks in advance, i thought next was to check spark plugs, any ideas on how to check they are...sparking? and if that fails fuel pump?

Thanks all

Jamie

yes check for sparks (should have done that first really). if there are no sparks on all 4 cylinders then its most likely the crank sensor. if there are no sparks on 2 cylinders (2&3 or 1&4) then its the coil pack.

Thanks for you reply, without meaning to sound like a complete idiot...what's the easiest/best way to check for sparks? Thanks

To check the spark you hold the pug against the engine to earth it (not for too long coz of fuel vapour!!!!) or you can buy a tool from any factor that links the lead to the plug and you can see a spark inside.

As jug says the crank sensor is a prime suspect however have you checked the emergency fuel cutoff switch. Not sure where it is on the Bravo but is under the bonnet passenger side on my Marea. With the fuel pump lift the back seat and get a mate to turn the ign on, if you hear a wooshing sound then the pump is priming and working ( I think the Bravo has tank pump but not sure)

i usualy carry a spare sparkplug with me so i only need to pop the HT lead off a plug and then stick my spare plug on the lead, and then hold its electrode near something metal (engine's head usually) while an assistant cranks the engine using the key. you can clearly see the spark jumping from the plug to the car's metal.

Hi again,

Just checked all of the ht leads using a new spark plug and all where sparking fine! I then removed all of the spark plugs and changed them. The old plugs still worked when i did the spark test however they were about brown and dirty...what might this mean?

I checked the fuel cut-off switch and yes, it is also below the passenger seat on the bravo, this also seemed fine. After taking the back seats and insulation out then trying the ignition i heard what i think was the fuel pump working.

Now getting more worried that i really have bought a hopeless case, any ideas what to try next?

Is there anyway i can test that petrol definately is getting to the engine? Am i right in assuming that because the code light comes and goes as it should that the alarm/immobiliser/key problem is not happening in this case?

Could it be the starter motor, although i thought that the plugs wouldn't spark if this was the case?

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks in advance once again. Still looking forward to driving the thing, whenever that might be!

jamie9dh said:

Just checked all of the ht leads using a new spark plug and all where sparking fine!

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excellent

jamie9dh said:

I then removed all of the spark plugs and changed them. The old plugs still worked when i did the spark test however they were about brown and dirty...what might this mean?

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old plugs wil have deposits on them, the colour of those deposits tell you a lot about the state of the engine. light brown to yellow is fine, dark brown to black shows it is overfueling and/or burning oil, white shows it is underfueling.

jamie9dh said:

Now getting more worried that i really have bought a hopeless case, any ideas what to try next?

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fuelling and compression (a compression tester costs £20 and is easy to use, you just screw it into the spark plug holes).

jamie9dh said:

Is there anyway i can test that petrol definately is getting to the engine?

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try to start it for ages, then take a plug out and smell it / touch it to see if it is wet with petrol.

jamie9dh said:

Am i right in assuming that because the code light comes and goes as it should that the alarm/immobiliser/key problem is not happening in this case?

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correct, immob is switching off as it should.

jamie9dh said:

Could it be the starter motor, although i thought that the plugs wouldn't spark if this was the case?

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if the starter motor is the problme the engine wont turn over, so its a fairly obvious thing to determine. you're correct, if the starter motor was not turning the engine there would be no sparks.

Thanks for your help so far, the spark plugs were a kind of inbetween colour, they were a medium brown colour...helpful i know!

I have just purchased a compression tester, although i'm sure the previous owner said that after testing engine compressions, all was fine.

Other information to try and give you..i thing it has a re-con cylinder head and new cam belt fitted recently.

When i took of the petrol cap yesterday to pt some more petrol in it was as if it has to depressurise, thought that might show that the fuel pump is working? Also after lots of trying to get it started, it was just turning over repeatedly and not firing but there was the occassional misfire sound. Any thoughts ideas appreciated, thanks for all your help!

recent head change means timing could easily be out. a compression test will help to identify if that is the case.

trhe tank can pressurise or depressurise depending on temperature change even if the fuel pump isnt working, but you are correct it is a good indicator that the fuel pump is very probably working.

The car also has the little red light in the middle of the dashboard for an alarm although there is no alarm on/off switch to the right of the steering wheel near the main fusebox, i presumed that the alarm would go hand-in-hand with the immobiliser, could this be the cause of any problems?

Also to do the compressions test i presume i do one cylinder at a time and try to start the car, can you give me any indication of what sort of pressure measurment i should get?

If the compressions come back fine surely there isn't that much more that can be going wrong...i hope?

Thanks all

jamie9dh said:

The car also has the little red light in the middle of the dashboard for an alarm although there is no alarm on/off switch to the right of the steering wheel near the main fusebox, i presumed that the alarm would go hand-in-hand with the immobiliser, could this be the cause of any problems?

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alarm has nothing at all to do with immob, they are completely seperate. the alarm can not prevent starting.

jamie9dh said:

Also to do the compressions test i presume i do one cylinder at a time and try to start the car, can you give me any indication of what sort of pressure measurment i should get?

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200psi would be an ideal reading, but anything over 180psi is fine. you really want to see even results on all 4 cylinders, give or take 5%.

jamie9dh said:

If the compressions come back fine surely there isn't that much more that can be going wrong...i hope?

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most likely a sensor or wiring fault, almost certainly nothing serious or expensive, and definately nothing to do with the engine internals.

that sounds kind of positive then!, is it then just a case of trying to find the sensor or wiring fault? Sounds like it could be a long job, theres lots of wires!!! Is there anyway i can narrow the search down to a particular set of sensors or wires?

there are only a few sensors and other bits and bots that actualy need to be working to get the engine started, so the list isnt as long as you think, but it is still a time consuming and fiddly job.

Hello again,

Well, i've put more petrol in and then let the engine turn over and over and there was petrol on the bottom of all of the spark plugs so that must mean that the fuel system is working.

After doing a compression test, by which i mean that i disconnected all of the ht leads, removed all of the spark plugs and one by one tested the compression using a screw-in tester, the results were not good, about 100psi on cylinder one, then dropping which each cylinder. The garage which said the compressions were good when i bought the car, was obviously talking a load of bull... unless i'm doing the test completely wrong!

Also i noticed that after trying each cylinder there was an unusual sound coming from the engine, the only way i can describe it was as if there were ball bearings rattling around in the engine.

Any information/ideas on what do do next greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

that noise is valve tap, caused by the valves hitting the pistons. this shows the timing is out. if you are very very very lucky then the valves will not be bent and you can correct the timing to regain compression, however it is likely some valves will be bent, so its time to take the head off.

Thanks jug, how do you know all this?

Should i try to sort out the timing first and see if that makes it start or should i take the head off. Are there any guides/manuals that would be useful.

How do i correct the timing? If i take the head off then wha am i looking for/changing?

Thanks

a haynes manual tells you exectly how to do the timing.

i would try to correct the timing using some cam locking tools. if that doesnt work i would remove the head and then rotate each cam while watching the valves to see if they fully close. replace any that are not closing correctly, and then refit head making sure the timing is correct this time.

Again thanks for your help, bearing in mind i haven't done much in the way of car mechanics, do you think it is something a novie can do orshoulf it be a garage, i do want to do it, failure or not but if it is something which is very difficult i don't want to do more damage!

Thanks for your help.

correcting the timing is something you can do yourslef, replacing the head gasket is much more difficult, and replacing any valves is also tricky. however all are realistically possible for a novice armed with a haynes manual and some enthusiasm. that is all i had when i first did this job aged 19, oh and some of my dad's tools too. happy days.

at a small local garage it'll cost £50 to have the timing checked and corrected, and £200-250 to remove and replace the head along with replacing any bent valves.

ok can anyone help me please i brought a fiat brava about 2 weeks ago it has worked fine since. untill tody when it cut out and wont restart. has anyone got any advice please