Hi all,

I bought Fiat Brava 1.6 16V y.2001 last week and was very happy.

Well, my happiness lasted three days, utill I had a business trip to the nearest city on friday.
Problems started with erratic engine power.
As it was running on gas, not petrol, I went to a gas station and filled the tank with petrol with intention to try to drive it on petrol, but I could not start the engine.

After towing car to the Fiat service and having checked car by those guys there I was told that it wasnt driven on petrol for ages and thus injectors failed.
They tried to clean them all, but eventually I had to buy 2 new injectors for 3rd and 4th cilinder.
On the other side, gas didnt work because injector coil didnt work properly and the engine worked only on 2 cilinders. So they changed the injector coil as well.

I collected the car yesterday, but it seems to me that it doesnt work properly yet.
Its not so bad and so erratic, like it was last friday, but it small, noticable problem with engine power.
Could it be that other two injectors are failing or the second injector coil or whatever?

BTW, the price of more then 100 euros for a single injector is huge, isnt it?

just to clear up, you have a 1.6 petrol engine with a gas conversion, and the gas conversion uses vapour phase injectors?

injectors fail often on the 1.6 models, if you search for threads about this problem you will find A LOT of information. your injectors did not fail because gas was used for a long time, they failed because you have a 1.6 model and this is a very common fault.

100euros is very cheap compared to the prices you pay at a fiat dealer in the UK.

it is very expensive compared to fitting injectors from a scrapyard car. i pay approx 7euros for an injector at a scrapyard, they are very easy to fit yourself.

you can test your petrol injectors with a multimeter to see if they are within the required range. if you search the bravo/a section you will find detailed instruction on how to do this.

your power problem is possibly due to running on gas, run it on petrol only and see if that improves the situation.

jug said:

just to clear up, you have a 1.6 petrol engine with a gas conversion, and the gas conversion uses vapour phase injectors?

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Well, yes, it has gas conversion, but I am not sure about vapour phase injectors

jug said:

injectors fail often on the 1.6 models, if you search for threads about this problem you will find A LOT of information. your injectors did not fail because gas was used for a long time, they failed because you have a 1.6 model and this is a very common fault.

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I already did and I found out a lot of info, but I miss some info about what is expected life of injectors regards time/km, is there a solution to postpone failure, or something else I can do to make it at least less often.

jug said:

100euros is very cheap compared to the prices you pay at a fiat dealer in the UK.

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Well 100 euros is approx one third of may montly salary so it is expensive for me.

jug said:

it is very expensive compared to fitting injectors from a scrapyard car. i pay approx 7euros for an injector at a scrapyard, they are very easy to fit yourself.
you can test your petrol injectors with a multimeter to see if they are within the required range. if you search the bravo/a section you will find detailed instruction on how to do this.

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I am not sure I saw any bravo/brava/marea on ours scrapyards, but I'll try it out, thanks for idea.

jug said:

your power problem is possibly due to running on gas, run it on petrol only and see if that improves the situation.

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I did run on petrol and it is the same problem as if somthing is not precisely adjusted or something similar.

After looking again at the printed test results from Exeminer at the faults or problems section(i cannot recall exact term) there are three things listed
1. Lambda something - sometimes
2. Injector Coil 1 - permanent
3. Injector Coil 2 - permanent

Could it be that Lambda sensor (or something) is giving me headaches?

I am still in love with my Brava I hope it will last and not fall apart with a lot of repairing and problems.

Thanks Jug

Yes it could be the lamba sensor, you could try swapping it from one at a scrapyard (if you can find any), i believe it's very easy to do and cheap.
Make sure that the examiner has cleared all the fault codes from the ECU, and if you can afford it i would swap the other two injectors as well - best to change all four at the same time.
Also change spark plugs and leads.

jacko-27 said:

Yes it could be the lamba sensor, you could try swapping it from one at a scrapyard (if you can find any), i believe it's very easy to do and cheap.
Make sure that the examiner has cleared all the fault codes from the ECU, and if you can afford it i would swap the other two injectors as well - best to change all four at the same time.
Also change spark plugs and leads.

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They did clear errors as I could read from the print out.
If they would be from the scrapyard I could change all four injectors, but as I couldn't afford to be without car I opted to buy new from Fiat service :bang: , and I am now broke.

Sorry for my ignorance but I am not so good with automotive english(what a term ) and for some of the parts I cannot recall what it could be in my language. The question is what are leads??

The leads run from the coil pack to the spark plugs (four altogether). They are below where it says FIAT 16V in the engine.

Zed McJack said:

is there a solution to postpone failure, or something else I can do to make it at least less often.


Could it be that Lambda sensor (or something) is giving me headaches?

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there is nothing you can do, fiat have never released a new injector design, but i dont tihnk the injectors are the problem. the ecu is to blame, it sends too much voltage to the injectors.

i would change the lambda sensor as this could be your performance problem.

jacko-27 is correct, you should replace all servicables if they have not been replaced when they should have. a badly serviced car will often have performance problems.

Hi again guys,

yesterday I was fixing climate control (another story - thread, probably) and actually looked at what the guys at Fiat service did with my car.

One of the four things(term?) that connect leads and spark plugs, doesn't look tightly fixed. The other three on the left are held by inlet manifold(correct?), but the fourth has inlet manifold on its left side, but it should be held on the right side by injector coil. Well, it isn't. There is the space wide approx 0.50-1.00 cm.

It loks as if they did replace injector coil, but it doesn't look exactly the same as the old one. And now I can recall that the old coil could not fit in the stiro foam of the new coil.

Beside that, on the front side of the coil, and a bit below it, there is a mettalic thingy that holds wires or something, but its not fixed on its bottom end. There is a missing nut and the whole thing is missaligned and not inserted in the screw.

So guys beside being dissapointed with service quality from registered Fiat service I am asking you is it possible that I have wrong coil in my engine.

The second question is what should I do with that loose thing that connects lead and spark plug.
And the third one is what is that last thing that I described with missing nut?

The last question.
Am I right calling it injector coil or it should be ignition coil?

it is the ignition coil

actually it is the "coil pack", which contains 2 ignition coils.

i guess the fiat dealer have fitted a mk1 coilpack, which is slightly different, but should not be a problem. i would still go back and complain, there is no reason why you should have to accept the wrong part..

the "things" that connect the leads and spark plugs are just plastic covers that allow you to push the lead onto the plug. they look a bit like this


you should check that all 4 leads are correctly connected to the plugs. the problem is that the lead can slip further inside the plastic cover, so when it is pushed onto the plug it does not connect the lead correctly.

its a stupid design so you'll need to pull each lead of and check that the position of the lead inside the plastic cover means it will get a good connection with the plug. if any have slipped further inside you'll need to push the lead back in from the top until it is in the correct position.

the space you describe is not a problem, the leads clip tightly onto the plugs and do not need to be held in place by anything, the inlet manifold is only used so you know when the lead has been pushed on far enough, it is not needed to hold the leads in place.

today I went to the same city I was last time when my car died and it happened again
Everything was ok till I tried to start engine and there was some scratching noise. I tought it was dirty window because it was in the same moment as I was lowering my window, but 15 minutes later I found out I was wrong, it wasnt window.
I was driving through the city 15 minutes when some kind of sound happended again, but now in the middle of the drive, so I switched engine off and pulled off of the street.
In that instant of hearing that noise I tought my engine died, I dont know the english term, but its when engine cover brakes and oil gets out.
Anyway, I was expecting to see the smoke and vapour, but nothing happened. So I went out and inspected the car from above and underneath, but I couldnt find any sign of problem, oil or anything else.

I tried to start engine again several times, but nothing happened, as if there is no ignitions again.
Now I am deeply dissapointed with my car.
I left the car there and I am still thinking what to do, to tow the car here and find somone localy to repair it, or to do that 50 kms away.

Does anyone have any idea what could be the problem?

Thanks

Timing?

T14086 said:

Timing?

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Does it explain those noises I heard?

Zed McJack said:

Does it explain those noises I heard?

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Could do if it was the timing belt that snapped.

I towed the car home and opened the timing belt cover, but timing belt is there and its intact. Though I dont know did it slip?

I tried to look at those marks but could find only one.

Is there another way of checking is the timing belt problem, beside looking at alignment of those marks? Or, how can I tell that valves had the contact with pistons?

do a compresion test, if the timing is out or valves are bent you'll notice lost compression.

Zed McJack said:

Does it explain those noises I heard?

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I was reversing customers car off ramp & heard rather nasty noise...looked inside timing cover & there was ball bearings everywhere,pulley had collaped.

Being honest we brought the customer to garage & eplained what had happened when he also admitted he had heard funny noises for last few days,he brought timing kit & we fitted labour free.

Its one possibility.

The guys from local service confirmed that belt slipped(actually, spanner has loosened).
Though they couldnt say anything about inflicted damage till the head was disassembled(and it was saturday noon, so they were finishing their working hours anyway)

In hour or two I am going there to hear what needs to be replaced.

Hopefully it wont be too big damage :worship:

spanner loosened

timing needs to be 'spot on' on these or run rough especially at idle,timing tools always if available.

Hope it aint too bad/expensive

Ok guys,
Ive got the list of parts that needs to be replaced, bought them and delivered to the local service guys that repair my car.

8 exaust valves(5 euro each) and their holders(2.5 each), leads or whatever is the name for the thing that holds and leads valves.
Timing belt, tensioner, actually whole kit.(75)

Whole set of things that are placed between metalic engine parts, for which I dont have english name or cannot recall it now. (88)

We call it dihtungs, a word that sounds german but you get the point.

So all parts cost me around 200 euros, its not so bad as I expected, thogh I saved 130 euros only by not getting parts from service, but from another store in the other town.

Any thoughts.
Is it ok, should it include something else?

if dihtungs means head gasket then you should have everything you need.