Hello all,

I'll thank you first, as I'm new here and have found some solid advice already.

I have a Fiat Brava 1.6 SX which I have been happy poodling about in, but it has an annoying habit of really juddering from stop on mild acceleration.

The scenario is, stop at traffic lights, start pulling away slowly and it begins to really shake, if I add more power and drop the clutch more, well then it's relativly ok, but I'm not a rev monkey, and I've never had this problem with any car I've had before (It COULD be my driving, but after 22 years I think perhaps not).

I wonder if it's clutch related, although since my technical car skills are so great I had to look up how to spell clutch..........

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

By the way, I have decided that I will be keeping the car, and it will be modified, not sure what yet, but the list looks like this.

1. Air induction kit, 'cause I can fit the.
2. Torsion Bar same reasin as 1.
3. New disks all round (I'm thinking Vented, what's the recommendation here)
4. New calipers, etc etc, and pads (want to be able to stop from 100mph to 0mph in 3 meters or better....., no seriously, recomendations on good replacments)
5. New alloys, and tyres (any recommendations size would be cool, but style, I have some ideas about, also tyre recomendations would be good)

Having done the above, I would like to think it's safe to start working on performance mods, but I don't really know what you can do with a brava.

I guess the best thing to start with would be upgrading the Crank, just so that it's done. Can you put a turbo on a Brava ?

So anyway thank you all, and since this is going to be an ongoing project (after hours and hours of research) I'll post my progress.

The juddering is clutch im affraid.

More of an annoyance really. it will get worse with time but mine does this (i have the HGT) an its just annoying rather than a problem. still perfectly drivable

defo sounds like clutch judder. its time to get a new clutch (that should put a nasty dent your modding budget )

Quimbyf said:

1. Air induction kit, 'cause I can fit the.
2. Torsion Bar same reasin as 1.
3. New disks all round (I'm thinking Vented, what's the recommendation here)
4. New calipers, etc etc, and pads (want to be able to stop from 100mph to 0mph in 3 meters or better....., no seriously, recomendations on good replacments)
5. New alloys, and tyres (any recommendations size would be cool, but style, I have some ideas about, also tyre recomendations would be good)

Having done the above, I would like to think it's safe to start working on performance mods, but I don't really know what you can do with a brava.

I guess the best thing to start with would be upgrading the Crank, just so that it's done. Can you put a turbo on a Brava ?

Click to expand...

1. an induction kit is always satisfying. i think of it as a safety feature. if people can hear it when i put my foot down they're less likely to pull out on me.
2. i guess you mean strut brace? a nice bit of engine bay decoration, but nothing more imo.
3. your car doesnt have vented discs, you cant fit vented discs unless you also fit calipers that can take them. for example the calipers from a 1.8.
4. oh you've already thought about that well if you want better brakes why not fit HGT brakes front and rear (with rear discs) or just buy an HGT and save yourself a lot of cash and hassle. even if you fit £100000 brakes they wont stop you in 3m @ 100mph, thats not possible, even with a parachute and 20 wheels. after 22 years you should know that
5. alloys on a fiat need to have 4x98pcd. very few cars have that fitment, well actually only fiats, and some older alfas and lancias, and very few old seats. if you want to fit more common 4x100pcd alloys you need wobbly bolts.

dont bother with a turbo (it would be a one off costing thousands), or indeed any serious performance mods, its just not worth the money. you could spend a fortune getting 150bhp out of a 1.6, or you could buy a standard HGT and it would be faster and much cheaper.

So I have a problem with the Clutch, you said replacement clutch, and not just the clutch plate..... (Grasping at straws)

To be honest it has been like that for over 2 years, and I've managed to drive round it, but if I'm gonna mod the car then I suppose I should look at getting it basically set correctly.

I will not be changing the car, as I've decided to make this a project, I might just take this off the rode eventually, and get another car for regular day to day driving.

I guess we are quite attached to it, so it just seems like a fun project for my Wife and I to do. She's got smaller hands so she can reach the bolts I can't.......

I suppose that a turbo is a bit overkill, but well you never know if I have the funds, and we can find one that will work, it might still be part of the project.

With regard to the brakes, I was looking at the Rossini Brake Discs etc, they are vented, drilled and grooved, which is always a good thing, and not that expensive, about £120 for a set. Pads EBC GreenStuff look good, not sure about calipers.

I did mean strut brace you are correct, and yes I guess it's a looks good thing, but it does have a practical purpose too, which I would like to test (hehe hehe).

as a complete aside, I have managed to fix my rear windscreen washer problem, which has been there from day 1. Thanks to this forum. I did use the easy solution though.

1. Find non-return valve.
2. Drill out the valve.
3. Put back, and Gaffa tape.
4. Wash rear window. Wonderful.

I will do a better job later but I just wanted to see if it really was simply that valve.

Anyway regards and thanks for now.

Im getting this problem and i have only had the clutch done a few 1000 miles ago. It only happens somtimes at a certain amount of revs and clutch. Its a wierd sensation. The clutch people have checked it but as it only happens sometimes it didnt happen for them.?

Quimbyf said:

So I have a problem with the Clutch, you said replacement clutch, and not just the clutch plate..... (Grasping at straws)

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replacing one part at a time is a very expensive way to go about clutch maintenance. a 3 part clutch kit should always be used, if you replace one part (e.g.plate) you can almost guarnatee that you will also have to replace another shorty after (thrust bearing in this example)

Quimbyf said:

I suppose that a turbo is a bit overkill, but well you never know if I have the funds, and we can find one that will work, it might still be part of the project.

Click to expand...

if you really want to go for a turbo, and you arent able to significantly alter the compresison ratio, you must look for low boost turbos, especially small ones that are easy to fit in the engine bay and plumb in. this will be cheaper, easier, and wont suffer from major lag.

a popular choice for conversions like this is the turbo from a daihatsu charade. you can weld it onto the exhaust manifold easily enough. the V04-trim IHI RHB32 turbocharger was one of the smallest in the world, and it made 7 psi, so no intercooling was required. it would be an easy mod to do DIY if you're handly with a welder, and it would fit in the engine bay easily. you'd still need to drop the compression ratio a bit (hopefully just mod piston faces).

if you got the compression ratio right, and had it running at 7psi, you'd probably get good gains, but still not HGT performance imo.

i doubt the standard injection system can handle this amount of airflow, even with a rechipped ecu. you'd be better off using the original carb from the daihatsu with a bigger jet to handle the increase in airflow over the charade.

Jug,

just had a look at http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk they look like the job, about £50 - £65 for a clutch kit, for a Brava 1.6 (there are two options the standard, and the sports clutch kit) Looks like this is the three parts.

What are they like to fit, and would you recommend these guys ?

Regards

i dont know what brand they are selling (it doesnt confirm it in the listing) but i personally tend to keep away from unknown brands when it comes to things like clutches. a branded kit (e.g.LUK) will only cost you £50-60 at your local motorfactor so i'd rather go for that.

fitting a clutch is easy enough if you have the correct equipment and a suitable place to work where you can get the car raised (and maybe a haynes manual or experienced friend if its your first time). if you plan to do it by jacking the car up on a driveway it can quickly become a bloody nightmare (and dangerous), although thats more to do with getting access, and the size and weight of the gearbox, rather than technical difficulty.

Check out this link for good info about sorting your clutch. There's a photo about what seems to cause the problem.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15639/thread/1176460246/

Quimbyf said:

4. New calipers, etc etc, and pads (want to be able to stop from 100mph to 0mph in 3 meters or better....., no seriously, recomendations on good replacments)

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Tell you what drive off a cliff, that way you'd soon end up ay 0mph.

I have the juddering as well, though mine's a Dualogic (https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/82628-first-second-gear.html).

I'm assuming I can't apply what's been posted to my situation, right?

dual-logic uses a normal clutch the same as a manual, so a judder pulling away in 1st could mean the clutch is slipping. this would usually not happen until high milage or if an oil leak had contaminated the clutch plate. if the clutch is not fully engaging (a possible issue on systems like dualogic) then the clutch could also slip.

jug said:

dual-logic uses a normal clutch the same as a manual, so a judder pulling away in 1st could mean the clutch is slipping. this would usually not happen until high milage or if an oil leak had contaminated the clutch plate. if the clutch is not fully engaging (a possible issue on systems like dualogic) then the clutch could also slip.

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Then how come the juddering is only when the car has been left cold for a few days and goes away after about thirty minutes of driving?

judder only when cold is not uncommon on many cars, and is often solved by increasing the revs when pulling away in 1st (play the clutch a bit). you cant really do that on a dualogic because the clutch will bite at the same rpm regardless. from what i've heard that is possibly the problem on a dualogic, the clutch engagement has no compensation for cold. no doubt a software upgrade will come along eventually to cure this issue.

Guys,

Sorry for not posting for a couple of days, but I've had errrr WORK to do, it is really annoying when trivia gets in the way.

Anyhow, Thank you for all the useful info about my Clutch issue, I will be getting it replaced quite soon I think, but for the time being I'll live with it (I have done for quite a while anyway).

I want to puta performance clutch in, and I think it will be a garage job, but since I have just recently told the last Garage I used to 'stick their bla bla........, ' I need to find a new Garage I can trust. Chat with mates, and see what they say I find is always useful.

With regard to the 'Strut Brace', I believe I have found someone that will custom build one for me, (Or so he says, we will wait and see).

I mentioned before, that brakes would be upgraded too, and on that note, something weird has started to happen.

Accelerating from low speed, the Brake light has started flickering on and off, I suppose this could be a faulty connection, but I'm wondering where to look first. Could it be the handbrake switch ? (I'm waiting for a Haynes manual, so could you tell me where it is)


Once again thanks for all your help.

jug said:

no doubt a software upgrade will come along eventually to cure this issue.

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Interesting you mention that - that's what my dealer suggested the first time. The second time that adjusted the brake switch, which seems to have worked for a short time, but not for long

Any other ideas you can throw at me?

luvduvs said:

Any other ideas you can throw at me?

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if nothing is broken there is nothing you can do. the system is controlled by computer, so there is very little that even a dealer can adjust or modify. plus very few dealers will have a member of staff who really knows about dualogic. if they have people who've worked with alfa selespeed that would help, but at the end of the day the performance of your clutch depends on the quality of the computer programme that controls it. you're doomed to join the thousands of people who have also learnt the hard way that a clutch should be operated by foot.

jug said:

if nothing is broken there is nothing you can do. the system is controlled by computer, so there is very little that even a dealer can adjust or modify. plus very few dealers will have a member of staff who really knows about dualogic. if they have people who've worked with alfa selespeed that would help, but at the end of the day the performance of your clutch depends on the quality of the computer programme that controls it. you're doomed to join the thousands of people who have also learnt the hard way that a clutch should be operated by foot.

Click to expand...

But then again you would think that Fiat should have a solution to it since they built the darn thing. As far as I know not all Dualogic drivers have this juddering, which suggests this problem is only plaguing a certain batch - worse comes to worse I'll just demand a new one.

The switch is under the hand brake gaiter at the base of the lever. Try pushing down on the lever when you pick up your speed and see if this solves the problem. It's possible there might be some play when the h/brake is off and it could be 'bouncing' slightly and making/breaking contact with the switch.

J-OK said:

The switch is under the hand brake gaiter at the base of the lever. Try pushing down on the lever when you pick up your speed and see if this solves the problem. It's possible there might be some play when the h/brake is off and it could be 'bouncing' slightly and making/breaking contact with the switch.

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Ok, I'll give that a try, though I'm not sure how that would help because it only happens when its cold; goes away as it gets warm..