Hi all, can someone out there give me an idea of the cost of replacing a variator. I think my motor sounds as though it's getting near time for the variator to be replaced. I'll get it done at my localdealer but I'd just like a rough idea of cost.
Thanks

You will need the cambelt to be replaced at the same time so anything from £300+

afroking said:

You will need the cambelt to be replaced at the same time so anything from £300+

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Thanks for that, not as bad as I'd expected. And no I don't need the tetanus jab - the B will be my 12th Italian car so I have an inbuilt immune system!

Thats a refreshing response. £300 is a lot of money however, if it puts the car right and will lead to another 40,000 miles of motoring, it's a bargain. Hope the car is sorted soon.

Unless you are due for a cam belt change anyway then the is no impending rush to get the variator changed. They start of being a little noisy just after startup and immediately go quiet as soon as the revs lift off idle and totally quiet when the engine is warm. This will occur for many months with no noticeable change. Come a normal service then a good quaulity oil change will quieten things down again.

Even when the variator is rattling / chatting away like an old fashioned diesel engine all the time no harm will be done to the engine. Just stick a Diesel, CD, CDTi or other suitable sticker on the rear

I plan on having a good dig around when ours starts to play up at moving to a vernier cam sprocket as an alternative long term solution. Our Tempra 1.8ie engine was/is such a reliable lump and never used any of this variable intake stuff. Plenty of power and torque to pull that heary car around. Even towed my Uno on a heavy tilt bed trailer to varous events with no problems at all.

If I can't get a vernier cam setup, which will require a purpose made adapter to replace the variator then another solution could be to weld the old variator in a fixed position and adjust the timing by +/- 1 or two belt notches.

The Fiat workshop manual have all the timing variations documented so just a little long and careful research is required.

As far as I can remember the ECU does not change the fueling at all when it plays with the actuator so there shouldn't be a problem there.

Be careful with this. I just had the cam belt and variator replaced, and the timing was out by one tooth on the camshaft pulley, this is massive! The variator turned out to be ok, and the diesel noise was the cam belt tensioner. Beware main dealer prices. My Fiat dealer wanted £700, and I got it done for £500 including oil and filter change.

Are you sure it was only 1 tooth out and not a combination of camshaft AND pulley misalignment.

On a normal fixed cam setup, even pretty high lift racey cams, 1 tooth either way will not normally be devastating.

However, with variable cam timing I can possibly see that Fiat have set the cam on the threshold/edge of falling off and use the variator to bring it back into line/on cam. This being the case then a tooth misalignement could leave the inlet cam totally off never coming back on cam when the variator operates.

Your comment/advice is duly noted.

What you say seems reinforce what some people have said about doing a cambelt change without using the Fiat timing cam locks AND releasing the sprocket wheel to free play. Others have had no problems with doing a traditional cambelt change by only locking/aligning the crank and sprockets with the need to remove cam covers, lock the cam shafts and then free the inlet sprocket to fit the belt.

Good game ..... as they say.

The variator serves a usefull purpose the suggestion to weld it in one position is comparable to filling a punctured tyre with cement. http://www.Fiatbreakers.co.uk

three greens said:

The variator serves a usefull purpose the suggestion to weld it in one position is comparable to filling a punctured tyre with cement. http://www.Fiatbreakers.co.uk

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Please don't shoot me down/damn me like this. I was airing a view, alternative engineering possibilities AND I did say careful research was required.

I'm a fully qualified, UK and intenationally registered professional engineer and do not blindly go down or recommend anything without due research and justification.

I will totally support you in people making modifications etc. without due knowledge, research and care for the environment.

However, many of us in the profession only know too deeply how many of our current engineering disasters are driven purely by politics and rules created by people who have no clue at all and even if they did are so easily led by alternative agendas.

For example the US used to be considered aggressive in emissions regulation etc. but even they shy completely away from the Euro DPF saga. Diesel engines without DPF that when correctly controlled produce 60 mpg and little soot to engines that now reduce mpg to 30-40mpg, cause engine siezures, waste more precious metals and end up scrapping many clogged DPFs and costing the consumer hard earned cash.

Shall we start on CATs, unleaded fuel and carsigens next?

Don't get me wrong engineering solutions have to be found, and will be found to all sorts of problems, however forced solutions due to politics is not the way forward.

Getting back to the variator, it serves a purpose but are the benefits out weighed by the problems that it has caused and will continue to cause?

It could be that when I finally get down to fully researching the removal of the variator it is actually not a viable prospect (possibly requiring new inlet cam shaft profiles/timing and custom machined parts costing far more than 5 yearly variator replacment and scrapping) but untill then it is a possibility.

There are millions of cars in Europe running with fixed valve geometry, meeting all emissions regulations and performing perfectly adequately so to remove variable valve timing from the 'B' is not a crime. Yes one may lose a little bottom end torque or a little top end BHP but gain in engineering simplicity and less parts being scrapped every few years when one never used to scrap these types of engine parts as a matter of routine service/replacement. Totally wasteful and environmentally unjustified.

s130 said:

Please don't shoot me down/damn me like this. I was airing a view, alternative engineering possibilities AND I did say careful research was required.

I'm a fully qualified, UK and intenationally registered professional engineer and do not blindly go down or recommend anything without due research and justification.

I will totally support you in people making modifications etc. without due knowledge, research and care for the environment.

However, many of us in the profession only know too deeply how many of our current engineering disasters are driven purely by politics and rules created by people who have no clue at all and even if they did are so easily led by alternative agendas.

For example the US used to be considered aggressive in emissions regulation etc. but even they shy completely away from the Euro DPF saga. Diesel engines without DPF that when correctly controlled produce 60 mpg and little soot to engines that now reduce mpg to 30-40mpg, cause engine siezures, waste more precious metals and end up scrapping many clogged DPFs and costing the consumer hard earned cash.

Shall we start on CATs, unleaded fuel and carsigens next?

Don't get me wrong engineering solutions have to be found, and will be found to all sorts of problems, however forced solutions due to politics is not the way forward.

Getting back to the variator, it serves a purpose but are the benefits out weighed by the problems that it has caused and will continue to cause?

It could be that when I finally get down to fully researching the removal of the variator it is actually not a viable prospect (possibly requiring new inlet cam shaft profiles/timing and custom machined parts costing far more than 5 yearly variator replacment and scrapping) but untill then it is a possibility.

There are millions of cars in Europe running with fixed valve geometry, meeting all emissions regulations and performing perfectly adequately so to remove variable valve timing from the 'B' is not a crime. Yes one may lose a little bottom end torque or a little top end BHP but gain in engineering simplicity and less parts being scrapped every few years when one never used to scrap these types of engine parts as a matter of routine service/replacement. Totally wasteful and environmentally unjustified.

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I can see the sense in what you are saying, I find it very frustrating that most parts are replaced instead of repaired nowadays.

I can see why you're interested in running fixed valve timing and applaud your approach, but if you do the job yourself you can do new variator, belts and pulleys for about £200. You'll end up with a more flexible engine, a nicer drive, plus the variator (if it's the new type) should last 5 years or so at least.

Is it really worth the work to fix it up solid?

My car ran well with the timing too advanced, but there was a rumbling noise at tickover. Now the cams have been locked with the correct tool and everything put in order the engine is a different beast. It idles quietly and now the exhaust emits more of of a purposeful bark. I can feel the variator kick in at 3500 rpm and the car feels much faster and more flexible.

Thanks for the support. I will have no problem in doing cambelt, variator etc.

Have done more cam belts, valve shimming, replacing TDC sensors etc. than I want to remember. Probably have on of the largest stocks of valve shims on the South Coast.

Just makes me mad that what should be a simple, stop, rotate, lock and replace has turned in to a stop, remove rocker cover, remove bearings / replace with lobe locking caps, strip off varoitor, replace variator etc. etc. AND that rocket cover gasket is complex and expensive.

Such is life I guess.

as i think why variator like to die is missing oil inside variator when starting engine so those parts inside are dry. problem could be solved with some small pump that will squirt some oil when you turn key. and variator will last as whole engine.

Hi, the chap that suggested welding up the variator is perfectly entitled to his own opinions but to advise welding it up is daft and as an engineer you should know its probably an impossible exercise. That was why i replied to the thread.Surely im entitled to voice my opinion.I also am highly skilled having spent plenty of time working on aircraft engines.I am also skilled as an Alfa Romeo specialist.You may not like the variator but it is not overly expensive to replace and serves a usefull purpose.http://www.Fiatbreakers.co.uk

You are entitled to reply, but reading your response it could be taken as a bit flippant and dismissive.

Point taken, in retrospect my first reply was harsh.I am not out to cause upset but to add another view, my apologies if my reply was not helpfull http://www.fiatbreakers.co.uk

three greens said:

Hi, the chap that suggested welding up the variator is perfectly entitled to his own opinions but to advise welding it up is daft and as an engineer you should know its probably an impossible exercise. That was why i replied to the thread.Surely im entitled to voice my opinion.I also am highly skilled having spent plenty of time working on aircraft engines.I am also skilled as an Alfa Romeo specialist.You may not like the variator but it is not overly expensive to replace and serves a usefull purpose.http://www.Fiatbreakers.co.uk

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Fair comment and I'm not shooting you down. My suggestion to weld was based on the fact that to move to fixed camshaft timing (which you may or not may agree with) one has to either have a variator substitute machined from billet steel stock or use your existing variator and 'fix it' (either by welding or other method).

Your are and always will be entitled to your opinion but in doing so you should try to discuss, elaborate and justify your point of view. Saying "cement in a tyre puncture" is not helpful to anybody.

Suggesting that to weld two counter rotating parts and accomodating the controlled oil flow may prove to be a little challenging is (justifiably) a more reasoned repsonse.

Many of the suggestions and ideas people post here are here to be discussed, reasoned, value added etc. which forms education and improves knowledge.

Coming from an aircraft engineering background you have your hands more tied than any motor manufacturer. I know. I've been involved in designing, field/trials testing and production support of both aviation and naval/submersible vehicle systems. I can still see/look at everything I've ever designed, or anybody else has designed/implemented and see improvements. That is what engineering is all about. When you go about your aircraft maintenance then I would be highly surprised if you never found found something that could be improved upon. Sadly for you all you can do is report your findings live with the inadequency till the manufacturer/authorities decide to make an official change. I would not expect you to do anything else.

Meanwhile in the general automotive business there is far more lattitude and that is, in many cases, to our mutual benefit.

And off the top of my head, bearing in mind I've never dismantled a variator on only seen breadown imagaes/diagrams of the beast I can see why you say welding might be difficult as the moving parts/surfaces are internal to each other.

However this what engineering is about. For a suggestive example. Cross drill, pin, weld and polish, with two pins at 90 degrees to each other and avoiding the oil seal contact area. Finish and welds do not even have to be neat an smooth. Just good solid interferance fit pins and decent securing welds.

What I would ideally like to tackle though is the total stupidity that politicians and modern automotive manufacturers (not always their fault) are getting us into as a society.

For example. The automanufacurer has to produce cars that emit less than x & y etc. etc. So they comply and generally their solution outlasts the warranty. After that they don't care how many engines etc. get scrapped, how wasteful it all is and the politicians don't care because they drive tax payer funded cars that get replaced every year or so.

My local council has/had major problems with their smaller diesel vehicles (wagons / trucks used for local streat cleaning, maintenance etc.) clogging up DPF filters within a month of being new vehicles because they only ever do short journeys and the drivers aren't allowed to go for joy rides down the motorways to allow DPF regeneration to take place. This cost us council tax payers huge amounts of money.

This is just one example of what I call "wastefull political engineering".

sure.