Off Topic Might be bye bye abarth

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Off Topic Might be bye bye abarth

No, you need to look elsewhere for information.



The JD power survey marked the 500 down for a lack of space in the back and a petrol cap that was difficult to get off.



The JD Power survey is complete borlocks.


That's rubbish, you do know JD spend hours requesting job cards from dealerships to base their info from, my dealership has gave them some, it's the most accurate survey out there, a true survey with true accounts.
500 has smallest space in its class because the others have adjustable rear benches so it's good ish boot or adjust for good ish rear passenger space.
 
So is your opinion of the survey fact? Or is it just opinion?

I'll ask again, when considering a new car, where would you personaly get info on satisfaction/reliability? Would you go to a perhaps biased forum and ask owners? Perhaps you would refer to old stereotype sayings, or base your opinions on others'experiances?

My purchase was influenced by real peoples experiences on here.


You clearly have no idea about how reliable the 500 really is so I see no point in debating this further with you.
 
Ok have it your way, no need to be in a strop just because someone challenged you and has a different opinion to you, although I feel like a pattern is beginning to emerge. Good night.
 
Ok have it your way, no need to be in a strop just because someone challenged you and has a different opinion to you, although I feel like a pattern is beginning to emerge. Good night.

The thing is you've got what, 26 posts and you've been here a few months and you're trying to tell me that I'm wrong and you and some silly survey based on the opinions of ignorant morons who can't even operate a simple fuel filler cap.


http://www.whatcar.com/awards/jdpower/2014/model/fiat_500


I mean come on.


Seat adjustment issues; poor rear passenger room; inefficient demister; stubborn fuel cap


NONE of those constitutes a reliability issue! NONE OF THEM. The car demists just fine. I've got a Panda 4x4 without air con and it has no demisting problems


Whereas the negatives for the VW Up!


Windows fog up easily; poor radio reception; rear seat adjustment; acceleration; servicing costs.


Actually has a fault in it which is poor radio reception.


All those adverts that VW pay for with What?!?!?!?! Car!?!??!?!!?!?!?!? seem to pay off nicely.


Aside from the 1979 Peugeot 504 I had, my 500 is the most reliable car I've owned. I've done 67k miles in it now and it's not cost me a single penny out of warranty other than a few bulbs.


What?!?!?!?!?! Car?!?!?!?!?!? are so ridiculously corrupt it's not funny. They pitted the twinair Mito against much higher specced and far more expensive cars like the new Mini with a much bigger engine and then complained that it was underpowered when they could have easily had one of the 1.4 turbo's in the same price range as a Mini.....


If you want to swallow this crap then why not go off to a VW forum and enjoy their overrated and overpriced and overappreciated crap on there.....
 
http://www.autonews.com/article/200....-power-initial-quality-survey-defeats-itself





Here's the problem illustrated perfectly.


Over the years, critics have griped about J.D. Power’s methodology -- not a random sample and too-small samples on less popular models -- and policies, such as placing equal numerical weight on blown engines as on vibrating ash trays. Others complain that Power derives its income from the manufacturers it surveys.


how can you take a survey seriously that rates a customer complaint about a vibrating ashtray as seriously as that of someone whose engine goes pop.


Look around you on this forum, are you seeing constant tales of people with engines going pop? Gearboxes lunching themselves? How many people have posted a "I broke down today thread" in the last month?


Now go on a Laguna forum or something and see what a truly unreliable car is.


Don't get me wrong the 500 is not perfect and has issues with cheap suspension bits..... but it's a reliable car.

JD Power is pretty much the worst way of measuring reliability....




http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-trouble-with-jd-powers-initial-quality-study-feature
 
That's rubbish, you do know JD spend hours requesting job cards from dealerships to base their info from, my dealership has gave them some, it's the most accurate survey out there, a true survey with true accounts.
500 has smallest space in its class because the others have adjustable rear benches so it's good ish boot or adjust for good ish rear passenger space.

but this has little to do with reliability. The 500 is a small car.... Complaining about leg room when you can testdrive the car is like complaining that a convertible is windy when the roof is down.
 
During my 36 year motoring career so far, I have owned many an oldish, often downright elderly secondhand Fiat of questionable service history alongside theoretically superior brands yet it is a Fiat that has remained the constant throughout this time. If Fiats were as poor as JD Power reckon them to be would I have continued to buy them ?
Absolutely not.
In my experience it is very rare for one to fail to proceed, however the odd rattle, loose bit of trim and the occasional non critical electrical issue can manifest themselves.
So far, out of all the marques I have experienced Fiats have been the most reliable and durable cars - how about 50k per year on a Punto without one unscheduled visit to a dealer...
 
People are (as is so often the case) mistaking reliability with overall satisfaction. JD Power, much like Auto Express Driver Power, asks questions on all aspects of car ownership. Staggeringly(!) you often see smaller cars marked down for practicality, larger cars marked down for lower MPG and other such nonsense than anyone with half a brain cell would know was likely to be the case before they even bought the car. The 500 gets marked down on rear leg room and somehow this gets interpreted by morons as meaning it's unreliable. It isn't. It means it's a small car, and you can see that by looking at the so*ding thing.

Reliability on the other hand:

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

Yes that's it, based on actual warranty claims, Fiat comes 14th for reliability, one place behind Nissan. Meanwhile our all-conquering, go everywhere friends at VW come 24th, some 10 places behind unreliable old Fiat. So yep, truly terrible effort on behalf of Fiat. Don't make me laugh!
 
When did we ever think most of the 500's would get 2 stars yes two :(
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/...unt=10&orderBy=Title&orderDirection=Ascending
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/500/85920/fiat-500-cult-2014-review
ImageUploadedByFIAT Forum1407200849.967140.jpg
Fiat 500cc and panda came in at
142 and 143 out of 150 cars,
Come on so that must say something,
Fiats lost it's way turning out ok cars with no spark or decent power for more money,
Take the punto,
When my GP (fantastic car in looks and engines fiat got it bang on!)
Hit 3years old I would of had to £2000 MORE for a weaker lower spec lower power car . . :(
Who's gonna do that?
I also think they have self destroyed the 500 and what it stood for with knocking out these 500L etc spin off's, totally tarnished what the 500 stood for :(
Even poor panda ;(
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/fiat/panda-hatchback/versions/26077-5#editionChooserA
50% have 2 stars :(
http://m.whatcar.com/car-reviews/fiat/bravo-hatchback/summary/25693-5
http://m.whatcar.com/car-reviews/fiat/punto-hatchback/summary/25943-5
 
Ok, I think I get it now. There are some things you do believe, and there are some things you don't, and you pick and choose which you want to believe and then make up some theory about advertising/bribery for those you don't?

Like you said, I've not been here long, I chose to join this forum over the Abarthforum because I thought it looked more welcoming and fun. I must admit, I am a little concerned it's some how frowned up whenever someone says something slightly controversial about Fiat.

Talking of the Abarthforum, the 500 section has 179 pages with 15 topics on each. That's over 2500 topics, i'd say at least 60% are reliability issues. Quite a high rate considering probably only 15% of owners join a forum, but like I said, you are free to believe what you want to believe.
 
Ok, I think I get it now. There are some things you do believe, and there are some things you don't, and you pick and choose which you want to believe and then make up some theory about advertising/bribery for those you don't?

Like you said, I've not been here long, I chose to join this forum over the Abarthforum because I thought it looked more welcoming and fun. I must admit, I am a little concerned it's some how frowned up whenever someone says something slightly controversial about Fiat.

Talking of the Abarthforum, the 500 section has 179 pages with 15 topics on each. That's over 2500 topics, i'd say at least 60% are reliability issues. Quite a high rate considering probably only 15% of owners join a forum, but like I said, you are free to believe what you want to believe.


Out of interest, why have you not sold yours if it gives so much trouble?
 
fiat of 90's you are right not reliable 100% (10 years of experience with tipo )not perfect but also not so bad
fiat of 2000'S 100% reliable punto mk2 b 1.2 16 valves model 2004 90000 miles covered and no problem at all still run on 5-40 oil. most of its parts still original
great car
 
Out of interest, why have you not sold yours if it gives so much trouble?

I dont beleive I said I had trouble with mine? I have had the more common issues, suspension, sticky brakes, wheel bearings, oil leaks etc.

The thing is like 306 Maxi said, his/her car has been very reliable, that makes him/her think all Fiats are reliable, but my point was, you have to look at the bigger picture. Im sure when 306 maxi bought thier car, Fiat sold more than 1 500 that year.
 
Talking of the Abarthforum, the 500 section has 179 pages with 15 topics on each. That's over 2500 topics, i'd say at least 60% are reliability issues. Quite a high rate considering probably only 15% of owners join a forum, but like I said, you are free to believe what you want to believe.



Like the 40% in the "newbie section"


who join because they have an issue ; - )


the Abarth range ( I think they are FIAT's) are relatively highly specced cars with a great deal of "tech" on them,
this adds to further complications/ headaches..,


I know that LOTS of expensive modern cars have similar levels of TECH,
unfortunately the difference there is the "better brands" will actually buy back the lemons in their pile.. whereas FIAT UK just don't appear to care.


I know somebody with a "quality" german car,
that broke down ( literally) so often that the Bavarian company actually replaced with the vehicle with new..despite 18 months of woeful ownership.


personally I would've RUN from it.. but it's all about "image".




the German TUV surveys are far more "real world" in my book,
I want reliable to mean - never leaving me at the roadside - 1 of those in 26 years is fine in my book.
 
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Like the 40% in the "newbie section"


who join because they have an issue ; - )


the Abarth range ( I think they are FIAT's) are relatively highly specced cars with a great deal of "tech" on them,
this adds to further complications/ headaches..,


I know that LOTS of expensive modern cars have similar levels of TECH,
unfortunately the difference there is the "better brands" will actually buy back the lemons in their pile.. whereas FIAT UK just don't appear to care.


I know somebody with a "quality" german car,
that broke down ( literally) so often that the Bavarian company actually replaced with the vehicle with new..despite 18 months of woeful ownership.


personally I would've RUN from it.. but it's all about "image".




the German TUV surveys are far more "real world" in my book,
I want reliable to mean - never leaving me at the roadside - 1 of those in 26 years is fine in my book.

yeh a friend of mine had his 5 series repaired so many times under warranty that the garage, out of good faith, continued to cover it for ages even when the warranty expired! Presumably anyone with a modicum of knowledge about cars would know that Fiats are not the most reliable cars in the world prior to buying one. You probably need to a buy a Lexus for better peace of mind, and even then there are exceptions. So why buy a Fiat and then start moaning about their reliability?? If there are all these fantastic surveys out there then why dident one read them before purchasing?? IMO the Dealer network is more the issue and not the cars. Thankfully I have a local Fiat appointed Indie who are excellent and was one of the deciding comfort factors I had when buying the car along with the 5 year warranty we have here. I drove several Alfas thru the 80's & 90's, they were deemed to be fairly troublesome at the time and considered a car to avoid by the average punter, I never had any problems with any of the cars other then service items, granted the floor eventually fell out of my Sud but I put that down to charachter!! I have a feeling the OP bought an unloved lemon that possibly had a hard life under the previous owner backed up by poor dealer support. The buck should stop with Fiat themselves though and they do need to sort out their dealer network / customer support.
 
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