Hi FiatForum Members,

While I have been reading this forum for a few weeks, this is my first post.

I just test drove a 595 Competizione and a base 500 Abarth back to back. I cannot find any reviews of the 595s online so perhaps this will help anyone looking at these models and also elicit some feedback.

I wanted to test drive a Turismo, but my local dealer did not have one to test drive and, of course, only told me this after I arrived. I asked for a 595 Turismo hatchback with a manual transmission. I got a 595 Compeizione convertible with the MTA.

The seats in the Competizione are Sabelt deep bucket racing seats. They offer really great side bolstering but not much cushioning for one's bottom or back. I took both out for about 45 minutes and found the Competizione seats to be OK at the beginning and fairly uncomfortable at the end. Unlike the seats in the base and Turismo they are not height adjustable. I'm 6'2" and had a commanding view of the sun visor. These seats seem to be a cross between true 5-point racing harness racing seats and sport seats, but unfortunately manage to be the worst of both worlds. Even though I am on the tall side, the firm part of the seat that is usually at the lumbar area was halfway up my back making the seats quite uncomfortable. On the plus side, the Alacantra on them is nice.

Between the thinly padded seats and the stiff suspension my opinion of the 595 Competizione went from "cool" at the beginning of the drive to "stiff, but ok" one I got on the motorway to "a little bit too stiff" at the end 20 minutes on the motorway.

As I mentioned, the Competizione was equipped with the MTA transmission. Opinions may vary, but I found it to be the worst transmission I've experienced on a modern car. Earlier in the day, I had driven a Renault Scenic Diesel with a dual clutch automatic and it was a joy. The Fiat MTA is a nightmare. The strangeness starts when you pull away from a standstill. Regardless what you do to the accelerator the car slowly pulls away from a standstill. If this slowness caused you to press the accelerator more firmly then you will experience a sudden burst of acceleration as you LUNGE into the back of the car in front of you. The experience in city traffic is cars pull away from you quickly at lights and then you either lunge at them to catch up (and try to be polite to those behind you that might get stuck if the light was to change) or you very slowly speed up. The speed the car pulls away from a light is akin to what happens in a car with an normal automatic transmission when you take the your foot off the brake. Think "creeping forward".

This is very strange for a city car that is for squirting in and out of traffic. It's probably a nice feature when you are creeping along in stop and go traffic though.

The competizione was really exciting to drive. Accelerating hard on the on-ramp to the motorway was a huge blast. That 160PS motor pulls STRONG and sounds great with the Record Monza exhaust. The character of the engine is quite fierce.

If you want to really have a pants soiling experience experience, suddenly stomp on the accelerator on the motorway. The MTA downshifts quickly to 4th causing the tires to chip loudly and causing car to suddenly lurch backward and at the same time the Monza exhaust pops loudly from behind. The "pop" from the monza exhaust is more like an explosion. For 5 seconds, the experience had convinced me that I had explosively jettisoned the rear half of the car. A quick rearward glance showed this not to be the case.

After the beating I received in the Competizione, the comparatively comfy seats in the base Abarth left me unwillingly gasping "ahhhhhh" as I sat down. The cloth seats really are nicely padded. The base Abarth 500 was also equipped with a manual gearbox which was a welcome change.

I found the experience in the regular Abarth to be much more comfortable. Between the better seats and the softer suspension it felt sporty without being racey. The 5-speed transmission is nice though not particularly slick or sporty. The ride was softer, but also a bit less engaged. In the 595, the lack of steering feel through the electronic power steering was offset by being able to feel every surface imperfection through the seat but with the base Abarth there is less "seat feel" which meant less of a connection with the road. The 130PS on the The base Abarth 500 feels quick, but the 595 felt FAST.

I wish I could have test driven the Turismo so I could see if it was the suspension or the seats that made the Competizione uncomfortable. I may still ask (demand) to do so, but in the meantime I am a bit torn.

The Abarth 500 is a very nice car and quite a nice, livable car that would be comfortable around town and even for long road trips. The 595, however, looks like it would be an absolute thrill to drive but one would have to compromise some comfort (or being able to stand vertically at one's destination) for that thrill. Then again, maybe it's the seats.

As I understand it the 595s have the same components as the Esseesse kits so they should ride the same. I'd be interested to hear from those with the Esseesse kits on how livable their car is day to day and how they are on longer trips.

I suspect you will more likely feel a sharp burst of deceleration as you lunge into the car in front of you.

Closely followed by your air bag flying out of the steering wheel and your no claims bonus flying out of the window........

Seriously - many thanks for sharing your impressions, as a lot of members have an interest in the faster Fiats. I suspect Jason will be chipping in later.....

Verb said:

Hi FiatForum Members,

While I have been reading this forum for a few weeks, this is my first post. ..

As I understand it the 595s have the same components as the Esseesse kits so they should ride the same. I'd be interested to hear from those with the Esseesse kits on how livable their car is day to day and how they are on longer trips.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum Verb.
Enjoyed your write-up.
I don't own a A500 or even a 500 but from test drives I found the esseesse springs too stiff but I haven't tried them with the koni FSDs
I think the turismo model has the standard springs which might suit you better.
For me a manual gearbox would be the only one I would be interested in.

The difference in power between the A500 and the 595 might have been exaggerated by the Monza. The difference without the exhaust is only around 15bhp. Personally I would be happy with a A500 ( & a set of FSDs) but I do like the thoughts of the Sabelts and if they are anything like a set of Recardos that I used to have they would interest me. So for me the competizone model with the standard springs and the esseesse wheels would be nice.

Interesting (and funny) review, thanks.

I hope to collect my base model Abarth on the 1st. I kept the standard 16 inch wheels and seats (albeit upgraded to leather) for the very reasons you mentioned. They give a good all-round compromise.

Thanks for the warm welcome and I appreciate the information provided. It is amazingly difficult to find out information about these cars. The Abarth web team needs some serious help!

loveshandbags said:

I think the turismo model has the standard springs which might suit you better.

Click to expand...

This is unclear to me. The sales rep at the dealer in Zurich assured me (in an unsure tone) that both 595s have the same suspension and the only difference is the exhaust and seats. I am pretty sure the brakes are different as well, but this didn't come up.

I have read a few articles on the internet that claim the Turismo has different springs as you say. Then again, these same articles were speculation based on the Fiat press release which is unspecific.

loveshandbags said:

For me a manual gearbox would be the only one I would be interested in.
.

Click to expand...

Agreed!

loveshandbags said:

The difference in power between the A500 and the 595 might have been exaggerated by the Monza. The difference without the exhaust is only around 15bhp. .

Click to expand...

Fiat/Abarth claim the same power (160PS) for both the Turismo and the Competizione. The Monza exahaust is more of a auditory and visual enhancement than a speed part. From what I have seen, the Monza is just a silencer to tip replacement so it should not really provide any performance enhancements. The standard silencer is already pretty loud so I doubt it is restricting the exhaust much, if any.

loveshandbags said:

Personally I would be happy with a A500 ( & a set of FSDs) but I do like the thoughts of the Sabelts and if they are anything like a set of Recardos that I used to have they would interest me. So for me the competizone model with the standard springs and the esseesse wheels would be nice.

Click to expand...

I've had nice Recaro Sport seats in other cars. These Sabelts were similar from a side bolster perspective but had much less padding on the bottom and back. I saw a YouTube Video with a Renault sponsored Twingo race Driver who sat in the Abarth Competizione and remarked "ooo, these seats are hard".

Springs and brakes are the same on both models.

Apart from the Sabelts and Monza there might be a couple of cosmetic differences dependant on colour/stripe choice such as satin finished brightwork and possibly a crackle finish dashboard.

Obviously the standard wheel choices are also different although either set can be optioned for a relatively small amount of money, £160.00 I think I read somewhere.

grimwau said:

Springs and brakes are the same on both models.

Click to expand...

From a posting a few months ago (Click here) the Turismo model seems to have the standard Abarth springs fitted and not the SS ones. Although if you ended up with the SS springs it's easy to pick up a secondhand set from ebay (for the time being). IIRC the SS springs can't be purchased but the Eibach ones seem very similar. Also surprised the bumps stops haven't been replaced with Fiat coupe sized ones since everyone seems to have done that when they 'SS'd.

Verb said:

..It is amazingly difficult to find out information about these cars. The Abarth web team needs some serious help!

Fiat/Abarth claim the same power (160PS) for both the Turismo and the Competizione. The Monza exahaust is more of a auditory and visual enhancement than a speed part. From what I have seen, the Monza is just a silencer to tip replacement so it should not really provide any performance enhancements. The standard silencer is already pretty loud so I doubt it is restricting the exhaust much, if any.

Click to expand...

There are loads of threads on the form. Here's a 'good' one (Click here) on the Monza but the title doesn't describe what's in it.

I have attached a graph on the differences in bhp in having one fitted. It doesn't appear to show anything extra at the top end but at approx. 3K there's another 12bhp over standard. These figures have been questioned and it appears that if one was going for an aftermarket exhaust setup BTB have a good reputation. For the bypass it would cost anther £350+ and it may not be TuV approved like the Monza one but at will last since it's stainless steel.

Verb said:

Fiat/Abarth claim the same power (160PS) for both the Turismo and the Competizione.

Click to expand...

In relation to bhp figures it's worth noting that the 135bhp of the A500 is underquoted - in reality it's producing 140-145bhp. To get another 15bhp out of the IHI turbo involves increasing the boost pressure from 0.9bar to 1.2bar. On the 695 model the turbo is replaced with a Garret item which can produce upwards of 1.5bar hence the 180bhp. In the US A500 their MA engine will give around 190bhp+. The limiting factor of these bhp outputs is the C510 gearbox. In the MiTo a new C635 gearbox was developed to cope with this - unlikely that it will fit in a 500 unless the 'European' chassis was used minus the air con similar to the Assetto Corse. I very much doubt that a road going A500 will every see one.

If I was in the market for a new A500 IMHO the 595 badge does give it some exclusivity and maybe the extra £ might be justifiable. If you hold out for a the 'new' A500 with the multi-air engine and the garret turbo (whenever it arrives) it will be more expensive and heavier and it will still have the C510 gearbox.

Thanks again loveshandbags. I learned a few things. I was thinking the 2013 Abarths were multiair, but that is apparently only true in the NA version.

I re-checked my brochure from Abarth it only says "1.4 T-Jet" for the European versions so I imagine that means they are not Multiair.

Also, thanks for the dyno curve. It is clear the Monza does not provide any additional maximum HP, but it does provide more HP at various parts of the curve.

Let me clarify, are you arguing that new buyers should consider waiting for a new A500 with a new turbo and multi-air as it will be much better or that is will simply be a "meet the old boss, same as the old one" situation since the constraint is still the transmission?

By the way, what is the origin of your username? Is it as simple as you are a fancier of women/mens personal bags or slang for something?

Verb said:

I was thinking the 2013 Abarths were multiair, but that is apparently only true in the NA version.
I re-checked my brochure from Abarth it only says "1.4 T-Jet" for the European versions so I imagine that means they are not Multiair.

Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
There have been a number of individuals wondering when Fiat / Abarth will bring out a Multi-air model in the A500. It was expected that it would appear at the end of 2012 / early 2013. Still I wouldn't hold your breath. If and when it appears it will based on the North American model which is heavier and with all the re-enforcing around the front the standard 500 can't even take the standard C514 6 speed. I would expect it to be at least £2K dearer that the T-jet equivalent and may come in 2 flavours of a de-tuned version similiar to the 500T Sport (recently renamed to Fiat 500 Turbo) and the 'hot' Fiat Abarth 500 - these equate to 135bhp & 160bhp.

Verb said:

Also, thanks for the dyno curve. It is clear the Monza does not provide any additional maximum HP, but it does provide more HP at various parts of the curve.

Click to expand...

Some with an SS and a TMC Tuning box and a Monza claim to have got 175bhp. 'They' gave 5bhp credit to the Monza.

Verb said:

Let me clarify, are you arguing that new buyers should consider waiting for a new A500 with a new turbo and multi-air as it will be much better or that is will simply be a "meet the old boss, same as the old one" situation since the constraint is still the transmission?

Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
The C510 gearbox came from Alfa and despite having a torque rating of just 206Nm it seems to have coped well with 230-240Nm which is the torque output of the SS model. It's not unknown for the gearbox to develop a whine if it gets too much abuse. Torque output on the North American model is 230Nm with the Garret turbo.

To answer you question on 'should one wait'....
I've driven a multi-air MiTo QV with a reputed 170bhp against my own MiTo 155TB (on a RR it difference is only 1 bhp i.e. 163bhp verus 162bhp). There is a difference in power delivery with the MA coming on earlier. The 155TB has a slightly more muscular IHI VL36 turbo whilst the A500 has the 'middle of the range' IHI VL37 one. MPG wise there is very little in the difference in the MA/T-jet and most the gains were lost when Alfa sold the QV with 18 inch wheels. Gearbox (C635 replacing 'it could go anytime' M32) and the quite brillant adapative suspension were the key reasons for changing to the new QV model. In the case of the A500 it might be worthwhile waiting for the new Garret turbo (+ the different manifold) and the slightly more economical Multi-air engine & the longer suspension travel. It will most likely be the same price as a current day 595 ; and the 595 will probably have more 'character' since I didn't seem to get the same number of Pops & little backfires in the QV as I did in the T-jet.
The T-jet is one amazing little engine. It's proven to be very quick in the one that I have and has been surprisingly economical. Hopefully the MA will prove to be as reliable.

Verb said:

By the way, what is the origin of your username? Is it as simple as you are a fancier of women/mens personal bags or slang for something?

Click to expand...

Let's say that the OH can't seem to stop buying handbags but it was best answered by another member on the FF (Click here).

With the last 500 I had it was in a girly Funk white and I much preferred it to the more macho Black Sport model that I initially bought. Handbag cars seem to suffer less depreciation and are good for the wallet - hopefully it will also apply to a A500 if you end up buying one.

Thanks for an interesting review

I liked my 500 Dualogic - I thought the transmission worked sweetly - it sounds like the MTA has really been stuffed up by including a 'creep' feature. I've had three Selespeeds (156, Stilo Abarth, and the 500's Dualogic) and none of them have ever moved off slowly by themselves. I expect it's to make it feel more like an automatic, but in a car like that I'd prefer the Dualogic's programming...

-Alex

alexGS said:

Thanks for an interesting review

I liked my 500 Dualogic - I thought the transmission worked sweetly - it sounds like the MTA has really been stuffed up by including a 'creep' feature. I've had three Selespeeds (156, Stilo Abarth, and the 500's Dualogic) and none of them have ever moved off slowly by themselves. I expect it's to make it feel more like an automatic, but in a car like that I'd prefer the Dualogic's programming...

-Alex

Click to expand...

I think the fashion is now dual clutch gearboxes. When i asked the Fiat dealer why Fiat still had the single clutch while Alfa Romeo went to DCT's, he told me because Alfa Romeo is considered more a luxury brand! I mean come on, we pay 1000 euros for the luxury of duallogic anyway, thats a luxury price for me!

As an ex owner of an A500 and a current owner of a 595 Competizione I though that I would add my observations to the mix.

The Sabelt seats do feel very hard the first time you try them. Initially I found myself sitting closer to the wheel than I did previously in order to get comfortable. Now after the best part of a thousand miles I'm finding them really comfy and the hard feeling down the back of my spine is gone. Someone else suggested that the seats break in like a pair of new shoes. I'm not sure about whether you break them in or they break you in but whatever - they are really comfy and "ordinary" seats in other cars now feel strange. I do agree that the normal A500 seats are instantly comfy but don't write off the Sabelts too soon.

With regard to the ride and handling the 595 is infinitely better. The A500 suspension is pretty bad - the only car that was worse in that respect was my Panda 100HP (a car I loved). The handling is dramatically improved because the car isn't bouncing around uncontrollably - the Koni FSD suspension is a real must have. The ride for a small sporty car is now pretty good.

The Monza exhaust is addictive - I've not driven with the windows down for many years - probably since I first got A/C in the late '90's!

I've no idea what the flappy paddle gearchange is like - one go in an Alfa Selespeed many moons ago was enough to put me off.

Conclusion - the 595 is like a totally new model - it is like comparing a Mk6 Golf to the new Mk7 Golf, the improvements really are that significant.

So basically the 595 is the car the Abarth 500 should have been anyway.

306maxi said:

So basically the 595 is the car the Abarth 500 should have been anyway.

Click to expand...

You could say that but I suppose it is a case of "you get what you pay for". In this case I feel the extra is worth every penny but if you can't afford it or are unwilling to pay the extra you will still have fun in in the regular A500.

I'm also including my initial thoughts a couple of days into owning the 595:

"I have had the car for a few days now and it is love. I can't quite believe how different it is to my previous NP (Normal Production - not SS) 500.

The suspension is amazing compared to the regular car. When I went out on a test drive I thought it seemed better but until you drive it on roads which you know really well it is hard appreciate just how much improved the ride and handling really is. It makes me wonder how Abarth could have got it so wrong first time around, although having said that the NP 500 is miles better than the 100HP Panda which pre-dates it so maybe they are learning - albeit slowly.

The sound of the Monza exhaust is totally addictive. I can't help driving with the windows down and I haven't done that since I got my first air-conditioned car in '98! On the rare occasions I have had the windows up it sounds much meatier around town but no noisier on the motorway.

The Red Sabelts are gorgeous to look at and are proving pretty comfy, although in truth the standard seats are slightly comfier for me. No pain, no gain!

The new Comp wheels really suit the car - in bright sunlight they seem to look bigger than they really are, if that makes any sense.

I didn't like the Comp mats with their fake leather panel and clips that don't work so have gone back to my red custom fit mats - they go well with the seats.

The carpet in general is more luxurious than in the early NP 500's.

My car does have a courtesy light for the passenger vanity mirror - unlike some other cars.

The Xenon headlights are fantastic - compared to the old car is like comparing day to night.

I have fitted a Kenwood KSC-SW01 Slimline Subwoofer (£115 on Amazon) which fits under the drivers seat. The sound it gives out is similar to the Interscope Stereo fitted to cars without the Sabelts - well recommended as the sound of the stereo without the sub is a bit feeble and tinny.

So far it has done 300 miles averaging 35mpg - I'm looking forward to exercising it a bit more as the miles build up.

Finally I must add that I bought the car from John at Vospers, as I did my first one, and the service has been as brilliant as ever. John really does go the extra mile to give top notch service. Although my nearest dealer is 10 miles away and John is 140 miles away I didn't think twice about where to buy the car - the extra miles were well worth it. Some forum members are traveling twice that distance just to deal with John!"

the only reason why the suspension feels much better is because the standard suspension on all 500's is so darn poor.

Is there a way to modify a NP A500 to match the feel of a 595? Is it just a matter of suspension (konis) and engine mapping?

iraklas said:

Is there a way to modify a NP A500 to match the feel of a 595? Is it just a matter of suspension (konis) and engine mapping?

Click to expand...

That 595 badge on the back is important as well...

iraklas said:

Is there a way to modify a NP A500 to match the feel of a 595? Is it just a matter of suspension (konis) and engine mapping?

Click to expand...

Esseesse kit?

Just to put any rumors to bed, I was back at the dealer and they finally had a Turismo in the Showroom. I have read online that the Turismo has black springs and the Competizione has red and therefore they must be different springs. This is definitely not the case. The Turismo also has red springs (at least in the back where I could see them).

Unfortunately the dealer couldn't make me a very good offer on my Giulietta as a trade in (they offered below bluebook/wholesale) so we weren't able to make a transaction.

Car salespeople in Switzerland continue to amaze me how they are happy to let willing customers walk out the door rather than negotiate a sale with slightly less profit and/or risk from a trade-in.

The funny thing is despite it being a supposed hot commodity we came to an agreeable price on the Abarth pretty quick, but they were willing to let me walk away over a quibble on the trade-in. Oh well, it's good there is more than one dealer in this city.

Thanks for everyone who shared their 595 experiences. Any more?

To put any controversy to end, attached is a photo of the Turismo and one of it's rear springs.