A good driver is one that no-one remembers.

It was just a question no need for judgements or lectures on how I may or may not drive thanks. Im not some max power wannabe either.

What I'm struggling with on the 500X is WHERE in Sports Mode ESP will kick in. As I said in a previous post I've pushed (on deserted roads) my 500X very hard indeed and not be able to get ESC to kick in. I would say I was in an operating area of control/stability that I was beginning to get very uncomfortable and (no offence/judgment/insult meant) many drivers with no motor sport experience would have been in serious difficulty. This suggests to me that in Sport Mode Fiat have set the threshold parameters way too high for public road safety.

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Alboreto said:

It was just a question no need for judgements or lectures on how I may or may not drive thanks. Im not some max power wannabe either.

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It is a safety feature - its there for your safety.

Any other safety features you want to get rid of because you are a proper driver ?

Personally, my driving ability is so good, I never wear a seat belt, and have disabled the airbags and abs. I also wear sunglasses at night just to give myself a bit of a challenge. When I am feeling really "proper driver", I have all four tyres at very different pressures to induce a bit of instability.

Lets try to keep this thread purely technical. On some older cars ASR/ESP/ESC/.... (but never ABS) can be turned off. Clearly for new(er) models, either by manufactured design and/or statutory homologation requirements some or all of these safety systems can not be turned off.

Anyway the following may be of use:

ABS = Anti-lock Braking System (Barchetta / 500x)
DTC = Drag Torgue Control (500x)
BLD = Brake Limited Differential (500x)

EBD = Electronic Braking Force Distribution (Barchetta / 500x)
ESC = Electronic Stability Control system (500x)
TC = Traction Control (500x)
PBA = Panic Brake Assist (500x)

ESP = Electronic Stability Program ?
EBA = Emergency Brake Assist
HHS = Hill Holder System
ASR = Anti Slip Regulator
TCS = Traction Control System
HBA = Hydraulic Brake Assist
HHC = Hill Holder Control (500x)
DST = Dynamic Steering Torque (500x)
ERM = Electronic Rollover Mitigation (500x)
TSC = Trailer Sway Control (500x)

EPB = Electronic Parking Brake (500x)

EPS = Electrical Power Steering
ESS = Emergency Stop Signalling (indicators)

FBC = Full Brake Control system

theshootist said:

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It is a safety feature - its there for your safety.

Any other safety features you want to get rid of because you are a proper driver ?

Personally, my driving ability is so good, I never wear a seat belt, and have disabled the airbags and abs. I also wear sunglasses at night just to give myself a bit of a challenge. When I am feeling really "proper driver", I have all four tyres at very different pressures to induce a bit of instability.

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You can disable it in numerous cars so this angle you and others are taking on me being some hooligan driver is just way off the mark. I do appreciate the technical responses to my simple question though.

Alboreto said:

You can disable it in numerous cars so this angle you and others are taking on me being some hooligan driver is just way off the mark. I do appreciate the technical responses to my simple question though.

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OK, so to expand on my previous remarks and keep on point. I worked for a major German manufacturer for well over a decade, the company has numerous subsidiaries several of which fall in to ultra and high performance.

I've driven at test tracks in Boxburg, Ingolstadt, Nekarsulm and at various circuits. In short although most brands offer an ESP (or similar) 'Off' button, it is usually a placebo which at best alters the 'tune' of the electronics to dial back their sensitivity. The majority of systems kick back in as soon as high yaw, gee, speed, steering input angle, brake force or wheel speed differentials are detected. In virtually none of the vehicles I worked with did the switch turn off the system. The exclusions were always track biased variants of the model ranges for Porsche and Lamborghini (can't recall any for Audi and the other main brands) and these were very few and far between.

The systems are mainly designed by three major tier one suppliers (not the car manufacturers themselves) and are adapted to each model and brand; systems are more or less universal and work on the same principles. Sounds like FIAT have opted for a fairly aggressive set up in Sport from what's been said, though frankly I've never hammered my own cars in the same way as a test car so couldn't comment on the 500x's set up.

Hope that helps ?

I mainly drive my Cross in Auto mode as it suits me and has enough power, when I am alone in the car and feel a bit more frivolous then I will switch to Sport mode, but not for long I do find the car has a life of it's own in Sport mode and I prefer to be in control...

From another post I made quite some time ago:

Yes the MultiAir is a definitely "springy" on take offs and gears changes especially in Sports mode.

In general this is what is going on:

1) The clutch pedal not only has two position switches is also has a 0-100% positional travel metering

2) The engine ECU will automatically lift the engine rpm to 1100 (ish) rpm as soon as the clutch pedal begins to lift up. (Sort of an anti-stall)

3) Throttle pedal response is much more biased and compressed to the 1st travel region of the pedal.

The way I've managed to tame/control and get used to my 500X MA is to stick it in Sport Mode and drive it in that mode for several weeks without being tempted to go to Auto Mode to check the difference. In addition in all but the steepest of hill starts (or aggressive power take offs on a drag strip) don't touch the accelerator pedal and just bring the clutch up gently. Once you are off the clutch then press the throttle pedal.

I tow a caravan and even on an incline I can get everything moving without initial throttle pedal operation.

Like a lot of things in the 500X it is all kind of counter intuitive to begin with.

Once you have mastered Sports Mode then flipping between Sport and Auto becomes dead easy. I very rarely use Auto Mode now except possibly in traffic jams around town. I just occasionally pop over to Auto Mode to keep familiar with its dead duck operational profile.

Fiat need to add another knob/control to allow people to adjust the liveliness of both the Sports and Auto Modes. Sports mode is too lively for many and Auto Mode too flat for many as well. Two extremes and nothing in between.

s130, are you able to clarify what the other mode, I think it's called "All Weather" does. I tried it and the car seems to drive the same as in Auto. I'm guessing that it makes the ESC more intrusive, to help out in low grip situations, but I don't feel inclined to experiment in the wet on public roads!

TrevC said:

s130, are you able to clarify what the other mode, I think it's called "All Weather" does. I tried it and the car seems to drive the same as in Auto. I'm guessing that it makes the ESC more intrusive, to help out in low grip situations, but I don't feel inclined to experiment in the wet on public roads!

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The Pop is different to the Cross Plus. You have the "All Weather", the Cross Plus "Traction".

It is my understanding that yes the ESC threshold parameters, including some of the other ABS traction/stability/dynamics become more sensitive as one moves from Sport to Auto to All Weather modes. This also makes logical sense bearing in mind the purpose of the driving mode dial.

I would recommend that you do NOT be inclined to test the vehicles systems on public roads.

Agreed on that! Although if we get snow this winter, it will be interesting to compare the traction between All Weather and Auto modes. Will leave "Sport" well alone!

Before I got my 500X queried Fiat about the difference between All Weather on the Lounge version and Traction on the Cross version, was told it was just a name change to suit the model of car otherwise no difference.

Alboreto said:

You can disable it in numerous cars so this angle you and others are taking on me being some hooligan driver is just way off the mark. I do appreciate the technical responses to my simple question though.

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Lighten up Francis !!

Fiat Ron said:

Before I got my 500X queried Fiat about the difference between All Weather on the Lounge version and Traction on the Cross version, was told it was just a name change to suit the model of car otherwise no difference.

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I'm not sure you were told correctly.

I believe Traction is an extension to All Weather with specific attention to "more off roading" compared to wet tarmac driving.

I can say that on the Cross Plus "Traction" you can have a fancy gauge showing relative power/traction distribution to each wheel supposedly showing you how the system is controlling/managing you traction.

I'm still waiting for some winter snow conditions to test this "Traction Plus" system. Last time I needed to engage it in the New Forest I had to be towed out by a Ford truck! Was not impressed.

Search the 500X forum for threads on Traction Plus for more detail.