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Old 6 Days Ago   #16
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

it was only a question proper drivers will understand why cheers
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Old 6 Days Ago   #17
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ESC ON PopStar

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ID:	183258 Can't see any 500x's featured in here?....they are proper drivers I think?
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Last edited by twobigdogs; 6 Days Ago at 19:51.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #18
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

Indeed.

Unless you are motor sport racing, 110% on top of driving, car dynamics, conditions etc. then turning ASC/ESP/save your arse is a potentially dumb option.

I'll qualify the above with an "in the zone" operational mode. No further comment as it is so obvious ..................

What REALLY CONCERNS ME is that we are asking these questions and are not getting decent manufacturer's information on how our cars systems function. What is on, what is off, when it is on, when it is off. Our whole driving domain is being dumbed down by manufacturers with minimal end user information etc. which is we are all asking these questions. I would say/venture that for 90% PLUS of UK/other vehicle drivers they do not know about ASR/ESC/ESP/..... Many possibly don't know about Air Bags and definitely "seat belt pre-tensioners".

Over the coming years we are all going to be challenged by the progress/technology of newer vehicles.

Replace ESC/ESP/ASR/etc with will the XYZ get us from A to B ......

























If the current 'profile' continues then future cars, as we approach compulsory autonomous self drive vehicles, none of the stuff we are discussing will be relevant again.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #19
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

ABS has been mandatory on new cars since 2004.
ESP (by whatever name) has been mandatory since either last year, or the year before, can't remember exactly which.
Few cars have an option to switch ESP off. Those that do really only delay its operation, as it is never fully off, but will come on very late when things get silly.

Part of the electronic control is antiskid, not for braking, but for when a driving wheel loses grip. This is also mandatory, for a few years now and most cars have no 'off' option. Many can reduce its effect, which can be useful on snow or ice, where when on, the system can reduce power so much there is not enough to move the car. Only time when 'off' might be a good idea.

To really get ABS chattering, try an 'emergency stop' from about 20mph on snow. Sounds like a machine gun.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #20
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

Quote Originally Posted by Alboreto View Post
it was only a question proper drivers will understand why cheers
Oh dear, I know this is click bait territory... but honestly... "proper drivers"?

Proper drivers are ones that use their vehicles as safely and in as socially responsible manner as they can... it's a car... for getting you from a to b... it won't make your willy bigger, it won't turn you in to John Wick or Lewis Hamilton... seriously it's a 500x...

If you're that bothered about speed and lack of electronics get a pre 2005 superbike.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #21
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

A good driver is one that no-one remembers.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #22
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

It was just a question no need for judgements or lectures on how I may or may not drive thanks. Im not some max power wannabe either.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #23
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

What I'm struggling with on the 500X is WHERE in Sports Mode ESP will kick in. As I said in a previous post I've pushed (on deserted roads) my 500X very hard indeed and not be able to get ESC to kick in. I would say I was in an operating area of control/stability that I was beginning to get very uncomfortable and (no offence/judgment/insult meant) many drivers with no motor sport experience would have been in serious difficulty. This suggests to me that in Sport Mode Fiat have set the threshold parameters way too high for public road safety.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #24
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

Quote Originally Posted by Alboreto View Post
It was just a question no need for judgements or lectures on how I may or may not drive thanks. Im not some max power wannabe either.
It is a safety feature - its there for your safety.

Any other safety features you want to get rid of because you are a proper driver ?

Personally, my driving ability is so good, I never wear a seat belt, and have disabled the airbags and abs. I also wear sunglasses at night just to give myself a bit of a challenge. When I am feeling really "proper driver", I have all four tyres at very different pressures to induce a bit of instability.
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Last edited by theshootist; 5 Days Ago at 12:11.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #25
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

Lets try to keep this thread purely technical. On some older cars ASR/ESP/ESC/.... (but never ABS) can be turned off. Clearly for new(er) models, either by manufactured design and/or statutory homologation requirements some or all of these safety systems can not be turned off.

Anyway the following may be of use:

ABS = Anti-lock Braking System (Barchetta / 500x)
DTC = Drag Torgue Control (500x)
BLD = Brake Limited Differential (500x)

EBD = Electronic Braking Force Distribution (Barchetta / 500x)
ESC = Electronic Stability Control system (500x)
TC = Traction Control (500x)
PBA = Panic Brake Assist (500x)

ESP = Electronic Stability Program ?
EBA = Emergency Brake Assist
HHS = Hill Holder System
ASR = Anti Slip Regulator
TCS = Traction Control System
HBA = Hydraulic Brake Assist
HHC = Hill Holder Control (500x)
DST = Dynamic Steering Torque (500x)
ERM = Electronic Rollover Mitigation (500x)
TSC = Trailer Sway Control (500x)

EPB = Electronic Parking Brake (500x)

EPS = Electrical Power Steering
ESS = Emergency Stop Signalling (indicators)

FBC = Full Brake Control system
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Old 4 Days Ago   #26
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

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Old 4 Days Ago   #27
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Quote Originally Posted by theshootist View Post
It is a safety feature - its there for your safety.

Any other safety features you want to get rid of because you are a proper driver ?

Personally, my driving ability is so good, I never wear a seat belt, and have disabled the airbags and abs. I also wear sunglasses at night just to give myself a bit of a challenge. When I am feeling really "proper driver", I have all four tyres at very different pressures to induce a bit of instability.
You can disable it in numerous cars so this angle you and others are taking on me being some hooligan driver is just way off the mark. I do appreciate the technical responses to my simple question though.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #28
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

Quote Originally Posted by Alboreto View Post
You can disable it in numerous cars so this angle you and others are taking on me being some hooligan driver is just way off the mark. I do appreciate the technical responses to my simple question though.
OK, so to expand on my previous remarks and keep on point. I worked for a major German manufacturer for well over a decade, the company has numerous subsidiaries several of which fall in to ultra and high performance.

I've driven at test tracks in Boxburg, Ingolstadt, Nekarsulm and at various circuits. In short although most brands offer an ESP (or similar) 'Off' button, it is usually a placebo which at best alters the 'tune' of the electronics to dial back their sensitivity. The majority of systems kick back in as soon as high yaw, gee, speed, steering input angle, brake force or wheel speed differentials are detected. In virtually none of the vehicles I worked with did the switch turn off the system. The exclusions were always track biased variants of the model ranges for Porsche and Lamborghini (can't recall any for Audi and the other main brands) and these were very few and far between.

The systems are mainly designed by three major tier one suppliers (not the car manufacturers themselves) and are adapted to each model and brand; systems are more or less universal and work on the same principles. Sounds like FIAT have opted for a fairly aggressive set up in Sport from what's been said, though frankly I've never hammered my own cars in the same way as a test car so couldn't comment on the 500x's set up.

Hope that helps 😊
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Old 4 Days Ago   #29
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

I mainly drive my Cross in Auto mode as it suits me and has enough power, when I am alone in the car and feel a bit more frivolous then I will switch to Sport mode, but not for long I do find the car has a life of it's own in Sport mode and I prefer to be in control...
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Old 3 Days Ago   #30
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Re: ESC ON PopStar

From another post I made quite some time ago:

Yes the MultiAir is a definitely "springy" on take offs and gears changes especially in Sports mode.

In general this is what is going on:

1) The clutch pedal not only has two position switches is also has a 0-100% positional travel metering

2) The engine ECU will automatically lift the engine rpm to 1100 (ish) rpm as soon as the clutch pedal begins to lift up. (Sort of an anti-stall)

3) Throttle pedal response is much more biased and compressed to the 1st travel region of the pedal.

The way I've managed to tame/control and get used to my 500X MA is to stick it in Sport Mode and drive it in that mode for several weeks without being tempted to go to Auto Mode to check the difference. In addition in all but the steepest of hill starts (or aggressive power take offs on a drag strip) don't touch the accelerator pedal and just bring the clutch up gently. Once you are off the clutch then press the throttle pedal.

I tow a caravan and even on an incline I can get everything moving without initial throttle pedal operation.

Like a lot of things in the 500X it is all kind of counter intuitive to begin with.

Once you have mastered Sports Mode then flipping between Sport and Auto becomes dead easy. I very rarely use Auto Mode now except possibly in traffic jams around town. I just occasionally pop over to Auto Mode to keep familiar with its dead duck operational profile.

Fiat need to add another knob/control to allow people to adjust the liveliness of both the Sports and Auto Modes. Sports mode is too lively for many and Auto Mode too flat for many as well. Two extremes and nothing in between.
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