Styling Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Currently reading:
Styling Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

robotdancer

New member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
210
Points
45
Location
Yorkshire
Fitted some Samsung LED DRL bulbs today, Xenon headlights and standard DRL colour temperature difference was bugging me... yes I'm sad... but it's all about the detail :D
 

Attachments

  • 2017-04-04 18.51.10.jpg
    2017-04-04 18.51.10.jpg
    4.6 MB · Views: 198
Last edited:
Were they tricky to fit? I have the same sadness
 
Access panel in each wheel arch, turn wheels to full lock to ease access. The pegs that hold the access panels on are a bit fiddly to lever out. Once off just twist the whole bulb holder about a quarter turn anticlockwise and they just pull out (you'll feel it come loose, doesn't need much force). Just make sure you get a CAN compatible bulb, but there's plenty around these days. These are Samsung ones.
 
Can you provide us with details of what they are and where you got them from?
I am a bit surprised that a car launched as recently as the 500X didn't have LEDs fitted as standard - even the indicators in the door mirrors are filament bulbs for heaven's sake! I was also surprised that the headlamps in mine are HID rather than LED.
 
Hi Trev, they are from Amazon, bulbs are

2x LUFFY 382 P21W 1156 BA15s Bulb SAMSUNG LED Reverse Tail Stop Indicator Light Daytime Running Lamp DRL Sidelight White

The url is: [ame="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B019V68IQQ/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item"]2x LUFFY 382 P21W 1156 BA15s Bulb SAMSUNG LED Reverse Tail Stop Indicator Light Daytime Running Lamp DRL Sidelight White: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike[/ame]

The price is for two bulbs, no issues, seem to work fine, the auto dip function continues to work when indicating left of right.

I do wonder whether the fitment of stock tungsten filament bulbs is perhaps a factory cost saving measure as everything in the electronics seems to be geared for working with an LED system.
 
Last edited:
I was looking at how the DRLs work today. Seems that they dim when you switch on the side lights and become the side lights. Do they dim OK? Some LEDs don't like this - they are on or off - nothing in between. I think they also dim, rather than switch off, when you use the headlights.
 
If they work the same as on the 500 hatch, they don't dim - it's a twin filament bulb and when the lights are switched to on, the DRL changes from a 21W filament to a 5W (which of course makes it appear dimmer). This also provides the parking light function.
On the 500X, there is the additional complication that when the indicator is used on that side, the DRL switches to "dim" mode.
If the LEDs are equivalent to twin filament 5W/21W bulbs they should be fine.
 
Anyone considering this modification should note that theese bulbs are ILLEGAL for road use in exterior lights. This is true for all LED replacements (except those that replace the complete light including reflector and lens and are E marked like some sealed beam headlights). No replacement "filaments" are currently "E" marked. The ones linked to clearly cannot reproduce the beam pattern from a dual filament lamp. Also they are not made by Samsung, only the LED chips (might) be Samsung, not the lamps.
Additionally the ones linked are single filament P21W baynet cap not dual filament 21/5W capless (wedge) type used on 500 DRLs.

Robert G8RPI
 
Apologies folks, I checked mine today and they are indeed a single filament bulb that dims when the lights are switched on. Never dreamt they would do it like that. Do the LEDs dim the same? Clever if they do.
Robert, you are right about the E marking, I made the same comment on another thread. The beam pattern is probably not critical for DRLs, but if you switch to LEDs you risk being taken to task by an eagle-eyed MoT tester, police officer or, if the worst happens, insurance assessor.
 
With the insurance assessor though, they would have to do more than just say the lights were illegal, and therefore would not be paying out. They would have to demonstrate that the modification was a contributing factor in an incident.

For example, if you put aftermarket Xenons on your car and crashed in daylight with the lights switched off - they would absolutely not be able to decline a claim on that basis.

If you remapped your car and someone rear ended you, again, it's highly unlikely that they will be able to attribute your crash to the modification.

They would have to pay out for repairs on third party property in any case and in both of these instances, they would also have to repair your car if you have comprehensive cover as well.

However, if someone crashed into you because your illegal xenons dazzled them - game on for the insurer.

Same with if you add decals, bigger alloys, a spoiler, etc and the car gets stolen or damaged. These could reasonably be taken as a reason for your car getting targeted. The insurer may well then refuse a claim.

It is however extremely unlikely that an aftermarket LED DRL would be anything other than an aesthetic feature and at worse, if you crash, you will get them replaced by ordinary filament bulbs.

That being said the police, or a DVLA random vehicle inspection would be a different game and they may well take exception.

Aftermarket LED DRLs will not flag up on a MOT test. I am not aware of any obligation on a tester to check that the right type of bulb is installed. You can even get a car to pass with illegal xenons in reflector lenses if the beam pattern is acceptable. But again, the police or the DVLA may well pull you for this.
 
That's a fair assessment Garree. Practically speaking, replacing 500X DRL bulbs with LEDs to give a whiter light is going to result in less dazzle than some manufacturer fit DRLs!
 
Anyone considering this modification should note that theese bulbs are ILLEGAL for road use in exterior lights. This is true for all LED replacements (except those that replace the complete light including reflector and lens and are E marked like some sealed beam headlights). No replacement "filaments" are currently "E" marked. The ones linked to clearly cannot reproduce the beam pattern from a dual filament lamp. Also they are not made by Samsung, only the LED chips (might) be Samsung, not the lamps.
Additionally the ones linked are single filament P21W baynet cap not dual filament 21/5W capless (wedge) type used on 500 DRLs.

Robert G8RPI


With regard to this, honestly, I don't really care that much and for all the reasons mentioned above, doubt that you would ever have any issues caused by these items.

There are many, far worse mods/actions much more likely to cause you legal issues...illegal number plate character spacing, dark tints on front windows, loud exhausts, non standard tyres, remapping, EGR mods, using your mobile while driving, even fitting MOPAR mudflaps that technically aren't type approved for the UK...

The list goes on, I'm pretty sure that even the most pedantic law officer isn't interested in your little LED side lights, but if you're bothered, don't buy them... simple.

Couple of points though (and I have fitted them, so am speaking from experience):

  • These are Bayonet fit and fit with no modification on my Cross Plus
  • These do dim/turn off just as do the standard tungsten bulbs when turning left or right and the indicator is on.
  • They are made/sold by LUFFY (you can google them and go direct to their site if you like) and do use SAMSUNG LED chips.
  • DRL side lights do not use or have a 'beam pattern' or 'spread' to disrupt. DRL lights are for 'being seen by' not 'to see by' and are not for the same purpose as main, dipped and fog lighting.
  • DRL's are not an MOT requirement in the UK, if you are remotely worried, you simply turn the feature off for a test.
  • You're partially right about LED type approval, as you can buy approved bulbs to replace P21W tungsten filaments (look up Halfords), but I don't think I can spot any that are CAN BUS wiring compatible at the moment.


Anyhow I shall continue as a major criminal using these little LED's until the FBI stop me, faff around removing access panels, remove the bulbs, check them against the international criminal bulb data base and then render me to Guantanamo...



As, interestingly, will all cyclists like me who use LED lighting too :D
 
Last edited:
Hi, @Garree001 said:
"With the insurance assessor though, they would have to do more than just say the lights were illegal, and therefore would not be paying out. They would have to demonstrate that the modification was a contributing factor in an incident."

This is not correct on at least two grounds:
/1 Most insurance companies require you to declare all modifications and can cancel insurance if you don't tell them regardless of any claim.
/2 Most insurance companies require you to keep the car in legally roadworthy condition, a deliberate act that makes it Illegal is grounds for voiding the policy.
@robotdancer said:
"DRL side lights do not use or have a 'beam pattern' or 'spread' to disrupt. DRL lights are for 'being seen by' not 'to see by' and are not for the same purpose as main, dipped and fog lighting.
and
DRL's are not an MOT requirement in the UK, if you are remotely worried, you simply turn the feature off for a test.
and
You're partially right about LED type approval, as you can buy approved bulbs to replace P21W tungsten filaments (look up Halfords)"

All exterior lights, including optional ones (apart from worklights that are not used when driving) must be of an approved design. The design requirments for DRLs does include pattern and intensity requirements.
Passing an MOT does not mean the car is leagal in all respects and many cars with DRLs use them to meet the "position light" (sidelight) requirement so are required for the MOT.
The only Halfords P21W LED I can find is
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bu...car-bulbs/halfords-382-p21w-led-car-bulbs-x-2
The listing clearly states they are off-road use only.

If it was possible to make legal LED replacements the reputable manufacturers like Osram, Phillips, Ring etc would be selling them. Osram say they are working on it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the "lighting police" here, If you wnat to fit them it's your choice (and risk). I just want the legal issue clearly mentioned in any thread so readers can make an informed decision. If it's not clear some may think it's OK becase it's on a reptuable forum.

Robert G8RPI.
 
Last edited:
Hi I've fitted said led's and much prefer them to the old bulbs.
Why all the shouting about led's being illegal when manufacturers such as Audi, Mercedes and other high end manufacturers use led's as standard?
 
Hi, @Garree001 said:
"With the insurance assessor though, they would have to do more than just say the lights were illegal, and therefore would not be paying out. They would have to demonstrate that the modification was a contributing factor in an incident."

This is not correct on at least two grounds:
/1 Most insurance companies require you to declare all modifications and can cancel insurance if you don't tell them regardless of any claim.
/2 Most insurance companies require you to keep the car in legally roadworthy condition, a deliberate act that makes it Illegal is grounds for voiding the policy.
@robotdancer said:
"DRL side lights do not use or have a 'beam pattern' or 'spread' to disrupt. DRL lights are for 'being seen by' not 'to see by' and are not for the same purpose as main, dipped and fog lighting.
and
DRL's are not an MOT requirement in the UK, if you are remotely worried, you simply turn the feature off for a test.
and
You're partially right about LED type approval, as you can buy approved bulbs to replace P21W tungsten filaments (look up Halfords)"

All exterior lights, including optional ones (apart from worklights that are not used when driving) must be of an approved design. The design requirments for DRLs does include pattern and intensity requirements.
Passing an MOT does not mean the car is leagal in all respects and many cars with DRLs use them to meet the "position light" (sidelight) requirement so are required for the MOT.
The only Halfords P21W LED I can find is
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bu...car-bulbs/halfords-382-p21w-led-car-bulbs-x-2
The listing clearly states they are off-road use only.

If it was possible to make legal LED replacements the reputable manufacturers like Osram, Phillips, Ring etc would be selling them. Osram say they are working on it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the "lighting police" here, If you wnat to fit them it's your choice (and risk). I just want the legal issue clearly mentioned in any thread so readers can make an informed decision. If it's not clear some may think it's OK becase it's on a reptuable forum.

Robert G8RPI.
I await my drone strike ?
 
Last edited:
Hi, @Garree001 said:
"With the insurance assessor though, they would have to do more than just say the lights were illegal, and therefore would not be paying out. They would have to demonstrate that the modification was a contributing factor in an incident."

This is not correct on at least two grounds:
/1 Most insurance companies require you to declare all modifications and can cancel insurance if you don't tell them regardless of any claim.
/2 Most insurance companies require you to keep the car in legally roadworthy condition, a deliberate act that makes it Illegal is grounds for voiding the policy.

They cannot cancel your policy if you have an accident, just because you have some random modifications. Think about it - you will still be covered, even if you crash whilst driving dangerously. The insurance company must act reasonably - in the legal sense (look up the Wednesbury principle).

It would be absolutely unreasonable for them to cancel a policy because you had an accident which was not remotely connected to the modification you had made. If they discover the modification prior to a crash - which is extremely unlikely given that insurers don't carry out routine inspections - then your policy may well be cancelled or modified.

The types of clause you mention are there to enable them to cancel your policy - when it is reasonable to do so.

For aftermarket LED DRLs my concern certainly wouldn't be the insurer. The police, maybe. The DVLA definitely. An MOT tester, absolutely not.
 
Hi I've fitted said led's and much prefer them to the old bulbs.
Why all the shouting about led's being illegal when manufacturers such as Audi, Mercedes and other high end manufacturers use led's as standard?

Hi,
LED lights are not illegal as long as they are approved (E marked), which OEM fitted ones are. The problem is fitting LED lamp assemblies into lights that were designed and approved with filament lamps. LEDs and filament lamps have different characteristics and while it is possible to design a light with either that can meet the regulations, the laws of physics (optics) make it very difficult to make a light designed for a filaament lamp work with an LED.
Most specfically all replacement lamps (for external lights) must also be approved and "E" marked. Currently there is no standard for a LED filament replacement lamp. Note that virtually all OEM installed LED lights require the whole light to be replaced if the LED fails. You can get LED replacements for sealled bem headlights. This is because the reflecter and lens is part of the lamp and the whole assembly has been tested and approved to the standard for headlamps. Likewise some aftermarket DRL lights are E marked and approved.

Robert G8RPI.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top