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Old 08-04-2017   #16
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Hi, @Garree001 said:
"With the insurance assessor though, they would have to do more than just say the lights were illegal, and therefore would not be paying out. They would have to demonstrate that the modification was a contributing factor in an incident."

This is not correct on at least two grounds:
/1 Most insurance companies require you to declare all modifications and can cancel insurance if you don't tell them regardless of any claim.
/2 Most insurance companies require you to keep the car in legally roadworthy condition, a deliberate act that makes it Illegal is grounds for voiding the policy.
@robotdancer said:
"DRL side lights do not use or have a 'beam pattern' or 'spread' to disrupt. DRL lights are for 'being seen by' not 'to see by' and are not for the same purpose as main, dipped and fog lighting.
and
DRL's are not an MOT requirement in the UK, if you are remotely worried, you simply turn the feature off for a test.
and
You're partially right about LED type approval, as you can buy approved bulbs to replace P21W tungsten filaments (look up Halfords)"

All exterior lights, including optional ones (apart from worklights that are not used when driving) must be of an approved design. The design requirments for DRLs does include pattern and intensity requirements.
Passing an MOT does not mean the car is leagal in all respects and many cars with DRLs use them to meet the "position light" (sidelight) requirement so are required for the MOT.
The only Halfords P21W LED I can find is
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bul...-car-bulbs-x-2
The listing clearly states they are off-road use only.

If it was possible to make legal LED replacements the reputable manufacturers like Osram, Phillips, Ring etc would be selling them. Osram say they are working on it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the "lighting police" here, If you wnat to fit them it's your choice (and risk). I just want the legal issue clearly mentioned in any thread so readers can make an informed decision. If it's not clear some may think it's OK becase it's on a reptuable forum.

Robert G8RPI.
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Last edited by g8rpi; 08-04-2017 at 10:36.
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Old 08-04-2017   #17
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Hi I've fitted said led's and much prefer them to the old bulbs.
Why all the shouting about led's being illegal when manufacturers such as Audi, Mercedes and other high end manufacturers use led's as standard?
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Old 08-04-2017   #18
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
Hi, @Garree001 said:
"With the insurance assessor though, they would have to do more than just say the lights were illegal, and therefore would not be paying out. They would have to demonstrate that the modification was a contributing factor in an incident."

This is not correct on at least two grounds:
/1 Most insurance companies require you to declare all modifications and can cancel insurance if you don't tell them regardless of any claim.
/2 Most insurance companies require you to keep the car in legally roadworthy condition, a deliberate act that makes it Illegal is grounds for voiding the policy.
@robotdancer said:
"DRL side lights do not use or have a 'beam pattern' or 'spread' to disrupt. DRL lights are for 'being seen by' not 'to see by' and are not for the same purpose as main, dipped and fog lighting.
and
DRL's are not an MOT requirement in the UK, if you are remotely worried, you simply turn the feature off for a test.
and
You're partially right about LED type approval, as you can buy approved bulbs to replace P21W tungsten filaments (look up Halfords)"

All exterior lights, including optional ones (apart from worklights that are not used when driving) must be of an approved design. The design requirments for DRLs does include pattern and intensity requirements.
Passing an MOT does not mean the car is leagal in all respects and many cars with DRLs use them to meet the "position light" (sidelight) requirement so are required for the MOT.
The only Halfords P21W LED I can find is
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bul...-car-bulbs-x-2
The listing clearly states they are off-road use only.

If it was possible to make legal LED replacements the reputable manufacturers like Osram, Phillips, Ring etc would be selling them. Osram say they are working on it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the "lighting police" here, If you wnat to fit them it's your choice (and risk). I just want the legal issue clearly mentioned in any thread so readers can make an informed decision. If it's not clear some may think it's OK becase it's on a reptuable forum.

Robert G8RPI.
I await my drone strike 😁
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Last edited by robotdancer; 08-04-2017 at 14:40.
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Old 08-04-2017   #19
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
Hi, @Garree001 said:
"With the insurance assessor though, they would have to do more than just say the lights were illegal, and therefore would not be paying out. They would have to demonstrate that the modification was a contributing factor in an incident."

This is not correct on at least two grounds:
/1 Most insurance companies require you to declare all modifications and can cancel insurance if you don't tell them regardless of any claim.
/2 Most insurance companies require you to keep the car in legally roadworthy condition, a deliberate act that makes it Illegal is grounds for voiding the policy.
They cannot cancel your policy if you have an accident, just because you have some random modifications. Think about it - you will still be covered, even if you crash whilst driving dangerously. The insurance company must act reasonably - in the legal sense (look up the Wednesbury principle).

It would be absolutely unreasonable for them to cancel a policy because you had an accident which was not remotely connected to the modification you had made. If they discover the modification prior to a crash - which is extremely unlikely given that insurers don't carry out routine inspections - then your policy may well be cancelled or modified.

The types of clause you mention are there to enable them to cancel your policy - when it is reasonable to do so.

For aftermarket LED DRLs my concern certainly wouldn't be the insurer. The police, maybe. The DVLA definitely. An MOT tester, absolutely not.
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Old 08-04-2017   #20
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Quote Originally Posted by Red Ruby View Post
Hi I've fitted said led's and much prefer them to the old bulbs.
Why all the shouting about led's being illegal when manufacturers such as Audi, Mercedes and other high end manufacturers use led's as standard?
Hi,
LED lights are not illegal as long as they are approved (E marked), which OEM fitted ones are. The problem is fitting LED lamp assemblies into lights that were designed and approved with filament lamps. LEDs and filament lamps have different characteristics and while it is possible to design a light with either that can meet the regulations, the laws of physics (optics) make it very difficult to make a light designed for a filaament lamp work with an LED.
Most specfically all replacement lamps (for external lights) must also be approved and "E" marked. Currently there is no standard for a LED filament replacement lamp. Note that virtually all OEM installed LED lights require the whole light to be replaced if the LED fails. You can get LED replacements for sealled bem headlights. This is because the reflecter and lens is part of the lamp and the whole assembly has been tested and approved to the standard for headlamps. Likewise some aftermarket DRL lights are E marked and approved.

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Last edited by g8rpi; 08-04-2017 at 14:55.
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Old 08-04-2017   #21
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Yes, much the same as afterfit HIDs - most are illegal, and potentially pose a far greater hazard than LED DRLs.
Robert, I thought the tone of your posts was informative rather than confrontational, and agree that people can make their own decisions armed with all the correct information.
You do have to be careful in Halfords - I've noticed quite a few lighting items that state "not legal for road use".
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Old 08-04-2017   #22
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Synchronisity or what, stopped at a Police and VOSA (or whatever they're called these days) vehicle check point today in sunny Ravensthorpe... can't think why it's one of their favourite check points... We chatted about my car, the extra pack etc... and I went on my way... I'm not in jail and my car hasn't been crushed.

To add some sense back here, I'm in no way advocating changing any bulb that is for lighting up the road ahead in poor light... As I have previously said, I wouldn't modify headlights (dipped and full) and fog lamps as these are specifically designed to illuminate the road ahead. DRLs aren't... full stop.

Anyway the Bobby and Vehicle standards man liked my car and I do too.
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Old 08-04-2017   #23
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Glad you had no problems. At least your modification goes on / off / and dims as it should. The strip-led, on full all the time, modifications are much more likely to attract attention. I take it you did not volunteer that you had non "E" marked lamps fitted.

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Old 08-04-2017   #24
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

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Last edited by robotdancer; 08-04-2017 at 23:18.
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Old 05-06-2017   #25
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

I tried this, went direct to Luffy as i am in Australia and cannot use Amazon UK.

Items in this shipment

2 pieces of 15 SAMSUNG High Power 2835 SMD LED 380 (P21/5W) 1157 7528 BAY15d Light bulb 15W white 1 LED-1157SS15W

Installed the bulbs and they look great however I still got errors on the dash. Am I doing something wrong. This is my third set of LED bulbs now and still leaving me frustrated. Please somebody HELP!
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Old 05-06-2017   #26
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Not enough resistance. You need to get an load resistor to go across the wires.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Load-Resis...0793386/g.html
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Old 05-06-2017   #27
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

Quote Originally Posted by Pedrolami View Post
Not enough resistance. You need to get an load resistor to go across the wires.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Load-Resistor-Use-With-Automotive-LED-Bulbs-/10000000010793386/g.html
No, the LEDs have too much resistance (too little current) google Ohms law and series / parallel resistors.

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Old 06-06-2017   #28
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

What warning lights are you actually getting?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #29
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

robotdancer did you get any errors on your dash fitting these?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #30
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Re: Always Tinkering... LED DRL's

No, they work fine, dip when indicating etc. Had car services recently, no stored errors picked up by the dealer either.
Thanks Alanw47 thanked for this post
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Last edited by robotdancer; 4 Weeks Ago at 16:48.
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