I've been pondering for a while now over which car I'm going to go for next, and I've more or less settled on the 500X, partly because I'm so impressed with my partner's recent acquisition of a 500L and partly because I saw one in a car park and thought it looked seriously cool.

I'm thinking of going for a slightly-used 500X in the next few months (need to cut down credit cards first, meh!) and I think I've more or less settled on a Cross Plus model, but I'm humming and hawing over whether to go for the 1.4 MultiAir or the 1.6 MultiJet.

All this stuff in the news recently about diesel emissions and the no-doubt impending hike in taxes on cars running on the stuff by the government makes purchasing another diesel car seem a little foolhardy - what are your thoughts on this?

Just about every review of the 500X I've read says that the petrol engine is the best one in the range. Is the definitely the case, or since I'm used to driving diesel-engined cars, would I be better off going to for Multijet? I need some words of wisdom and convincing which one I should get!

ClockworkSatan said:

I've been pondering for a while now over which car I'm going to go for next, and I've more or less settled on the 500X, partly because I'm so impressed with my partner's recent acquisition of a 500L and partly because I saw one in a car park and thought it looked seriously cool.

I'm thinking of going for a slightly-used 500X in the next few months (need to cut down credit cards first, meh!) and I think I've more or less settled on a Cross Plus model, but I'm humming and hawing over whether to go for the 1.4 MultiAir or the 1.6 MultiJet.

All this stuff in the news recently about diesel emissions and the no-doubt impending hike in taxes on cars running on the stuff by the government makes purchasing another diesel car seem a little foolhardy - what are your thoughts on this?

Just about every review of the 500X I've read says that the petrol engine is the best one in the range. Is the definitely the case, or since I'm used to driving diesel-engined cars, would I be better off going to for Multijet? I need some words of wisdom and convincing which one I should get!

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I have the 2 litre Multijet, which is a Euro 6 engine. I CAN achieve 50+ mpg on a tankful (45-47 normally). The car is MUCH cleaner than my wife's 1.6 Petrol Beetle, and is fitted with a DPF. What more do they want?

I for one will not be abandoning diesel till I have to.

I've been looking at 2.0L too and fancy the 4x4 but not that 9-speed auto.

The thing is, I'm used to the relaxed driving manners of a 2-litre diesel and am not happy at the thought of getting a fuel-guzzling petrol when I'm used to my now relatively old Audi which sips rather than guzzles the stuff.

Aah, decisions!

Standard advice now seems to be if you drive less than 15,000 miles a year and don't tow something, petrol is the wise choice. Modern diesels are unsuitable if you do lots of short runs as they will soot up the dpf. The regeneration cycle injects extra fuel, and if the engine is switched off while this is happening the fuel can find its way into the sump and contaminate the oil. Dpf life is reckoned to be about 80,000 miles, replacement is expensive. Without a crystal ball it's hard to know what's in store from the powers that be, but if diesel becomes unpopular it will obviously impact resale value.
Best thing is to try both when you are ready. If you can't stand the change to petrol, get a diesel, just bear the above in mind. I got the 140bhp petrol because I only cover about 6000 miles a year.

Pretty much echoing what Trev said, if the majority of your driving will be lots of short journeys and very little motorway, go petrol.

ClockworkSatan said:

I've been looking at 2.0L too and fancy the 4x4 but not that 9-speed auto.

The thing is, I'm used to the relaxed driving manners of a 2-litre diesel and am not happy at the thought of getting a fuel-guzzling petrol when I'm used to my now relatively old Audi which sips rather than guzzles the stuff.

Aah, decisions!

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Mine is the 2 litre 4x4 9 Speed AUTO and I certainly wouldn't call it a gas guzzler. My last car was a 1.6 HDI Citroen and this is not notably any less fuel efficient. Most of my mileage is M and A roads, and I can comfortably get 47-51 mpg. In more urban settings, maybe 43 or so. And is sooooo relaxed to drive. I have no issues with the 9 speed box, most times I don't even notice it change, plus it's rare to use all 9 speeds, depending which mode it's in.

"I have the 2 litre Multijet, which is a Euro 6 engine. I CAN achieve 50+ mpg on a tankful (45-47 normally). The car is MUCH cleaner than my wife's 1.6 Petrol Beetle, and is fitted with a DPF. What more do they want?"

It isn't cleaner at all. Even the newest diesels emit far more of the microscopic particulates that cause the most serious health damage. The antique government pollution regulations do not account for the minutiae of scientific knowledge, but the reality of the health damage that even the 'cleanest' diesels create has been known for a very long time, if people could have been bothered to research it.

For a low mileage, less than ten thousand miles per annum petrol is best, now. Very shortly all diesels will be considered pariah cars so I wouldn't buy one under any circumstances. Thirty years ago private diesel cars were practically non existent and the lead in petrol was the poison, now the lead has gone, and soon I hope the diesel will too. And anyway, in fifteen years electric cars will probably be the majority and most diesels will be museum pieces.

You need to try both.
I had a 2 litre diesel too and hadn't driven a petrol car (other than my wife's Panda's) for 10 years.
I found it really hard to initially acclimatise to a petrol, especially a 1.4.
I would instinctively want to ride the torque getting in top gear way too early.
I'd then wonder why the car was so unresponsive!
This seemed especially bad in town.
Its taken me a good 6k miles to come to terms with it and even then I get bored with having to change gears so much.
I know I'm slow to learn and lazy though

I also suggest you get ready for the difference in fuel consumption too!
You'll find yourself not wanting to rev it in an effort to make it drink less fuel as you'll be used to diesel mpg. Of course that exacerbates my point above as you'll be in completely the wrong gear most of the time.

Petrol!...... 1.4 turbo is quick smooth and quiet and the way diesel is going at the moment I wouldn't want to get hit with future taxes/bans etc.[emoji15]

It is an age old question, but a bit of maths might help.

New, the basic difference between a 1.6 MJ Cross Plus and a 1.4 MA Cross Plus is £1500.

At today's pump price of £1.147 for unleaded, that's 1307 litres of fuel, which is just short of 288 UK gallons.

If you can average 38 mpg in a 1.4 MA, that nearly 11,000 miles before the MJ starts to even out the costs.

Now, let's not forget, if you do those extra miles in the diesel and recoup the extra costs, the extra miles will lower the overall value of the car.

So for the extra price of the diesel, you comfortably get all those miles of fuel, no future diesel taxation worries, no DPF or oil contamination worries, no EGR issues either.

I've not checked if the MJ's have dual mass flywheels or if the service costs are any different yet?

Thanks for all of the replies, guys! It's definitely starting to look like the MultiAir is the one that's the better fit for me - I don't do much in the way of long motorway journeys. Heck, my current diesel's temperature gauge is just over the half-way point by the time I get to the park & ride every morrning - and that doesn't have a DPF, so I suspect that it could cause headaches in future by going into limp mode and stuff.

Here's another question - does the MultiAir require a belt change or is it chain-driven?

Ordinarily I'd say petrol unless you're doing loads of miles. However, I would at least consider diesel in this instance due to the 1.4 petrol engine in the 500X being a MultiAir engine. You will need to replace the cambelt, but you'll also have a reasonable chance of needing a new MultiAir unit at some point in 5 years & 50,000 miles. These can cost between £700 & £1000. Google 'MultiAir failures' - they don't effect everyone but they've effected enough to be a concern & some say the failure is accelerated if oil level gets low or even a slightly different oil to what Fiat specify is used. Trouble is, even some main dealers don't use the right oil as the information from Fiat HQ changes and literature isn't updated accordingly.

I was in a similar dilemma recently when buying an Alfa Romeo. I do 10k a year mileage, so i'm well into petrol territory, but I'd previously owned Fiat/Alfa diesels, liked them, had no issues with them and didn't want to be messing around with a failed MultiAir unit. I'll not switch to petrol in a Fiat/Alfa until I can see they've sorted out the longevity of the MultiAir units.

I think you need to check, but I'm sure they're all belt driven cams apart from the 1.3 Multijet which is chain.

You might have noticed chains aren't always as reliable as people think, just ask VW.
They stamped out millions of links on old tools and now they're all breaking!

This thread has been handy, as we're in the market to replace one of our Pandas with some sort of Crossover type car.
I think we'll take the risk of the Multiair system over the the problems the likes of the Nissan/Renault 1.2 Dig-T/TCE 120 suffer from.
Under sized pistons fitted and "oil control ring flutter" consuming all the engine oil.
Timing chain rattles.
Badly fitted gudgeon pins scoring bores, this list grows daily and that's just the engine problems!

Multiair is belt drive, replacement kit from Shop4parts including waterpump is well under £100 but don't know how much labour is involved.
It's certainly important to use the correct oil and have regular changes to keep the multiair system happy, but didn't have a problem in 6 years with my 500 twinair, and there were hardly any reported problems on that forum.

JTD_Liam said:

Google 'MultiAir failures' - they don't effect everyone but they've effected enough to be a concern & some say the failure is accelerated if oil level gets low or even a slightly different oil to what Fiat specify is used.

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Well, that just put the cat amongst the pigeons! Have there been any confirmed MultiAir failures on the 500L/500X? I've done some Googling and it would seem that it was only the early 1.4 MultiAir engines that were in the Alfa MiTo that had these problems.

I'm with TrevC.
Had my Panda Twinair three years now and it's been rock solid.

I've not read many faults recorded, but the one's that are, I reckon most would be oil related.

Like turbos, the Multiair units require the correct oil.
Dealers being dealers, they probably filled the early ones up with cheap 'n nasty to make a few extra bob out of customers, that is until they started failing!

Yeah, I researched the 1.4 Multiair on line before I took the plunge. A few problems reported with Guiliettas but I don't think they are that widespread, so I decided to go for it.
The trouble with "common" problems is that there is no way of knowing exactly how common they are!
No Guilietta Multiair failures reported to Honest John, one report of cambelt failure at 5 years/55,000 miles.

Multiair faults are old old news......as previous poster stated early alfas....and they will not self destruct in 5years time......

ClockworkSatan said:

Well, that just put the cat amongst the pigeons! Have there been any confirmed MultiAir failures on the 500L/500X? I've done some Googling and it would seem that it was only the early 1.4 MultiAir engines that were in the Alfa MiTo that had these problems.

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The 500L is unlikely to have any problems as the only engine with this technology was the TwinAir 105 engine, which was only offered in the UK for around a year. The other petrol engines are the 1.4 16v which is normally aspirated and the 1.4 T-Jet 120, which was also only offered for a very short time and is just a standard petrol turbo.

The 500X is still too new to have had much in the way of MultiAir problems if they're going to appear. Fiat has rolled out modified MultiAir units over the past few years so it might be that the problems have been sorted, but we won't know for certain until the 500X is 3-4 years old. To date the majority of problems have affected Alfa MiTo's and Giulietta's, with a few affecting the Fiat Punto. However, these were where the majority of MultiAir engines were installed when first launched, so that's not a huge suprise.

Goudrons said:

I'm with TrevC.
Had my Panda Twinair three years now and it's been rock solid.

I've not read many faults recorded, but the one's that are, I reckon most would be oil related.

Like turbos, the Multiair units require the correct oil.
Dealers being dealers, they probably filled the early ones up with cheap 'n nasty to make a few extra bob out of customers, that is until they started failing!

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TwinAir engines use the same technology, but somehow seem much less problematic. My Sister managed to have two UniAir modules fail in her Alfa MiTo TwinAir, but i've never read of anyone else having two modules fail and I only know of a handful of TwinAir owners who've had the problem. All I would say is don't base your likely experience of a MultiAir engine on that of a TwinAir, as the 4 cylinders haven't been as reliable. That said, the worst might be behind them now but I'd still watch oil level and quality like a hawk.

JTD_Liam said:

TwinAir engines use the same technology, but somehow seem much less problematic.

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It better be, mine's out of warranty as of today!