As we all know, there's no such thing a free lunch, but I sometimes think that if someone is thinking of buying a car, 500X for example, you can do a lot worse than hire one. A couple of years ago I hired a Vauxhall Mokka for a week, although I have to say I got that particular car by accident rather than design, and it proved quite an eye opener.

Measuring fuel consumption manually when filling up rather than using the trip computer it returned 39mpg. I know it was the 4X4 model, although this was presumably an on-demand system like the 500X 2.0 MJ, but I still didn't find that figure to be particularly good, especially when you consider that our 1.4 Multiair Alfa Giulietta will also return 39mpg. Although the Mokka was quite a comfortable drive, the only advantage it seemed to have over the Alfa was increased headroom, although at 5'4" & 5'8" tall that wasn't really on our list of priorities anyway. The disadvantages (for us) included: increased height making it harder for our medium sized, middle aged dog to get in and out; inferior handling/roadholding; inferior fuel consumption; inferior performance.

Why am I prattling on like this? Well, Sixt (and probably other car hire companies as well) have started taking delivery of 500Xs so why not try and hire one before you buy. It will probably cost a couple of hundred quid for a week, if you avoid Christmas and school holidays, but it could save you a bundle in the future.

If you fancy a diesel but only petrol models are available, Car Magazine's long term test 500X 1.6 Multiair Cross is shown as returning a true 47.5mpg.

Renting a car for a few days is a great idea. Thats why I ditched the 500L, I rented it and it was awful. I'm glad I waited for the 500X

On a side note, about the Mokka, the 2014 and later models got upgraded engines for better fuel consumption, due to complaints about the previous engine.

Good dealers will let you take one for a few days! I was given one Friday to Monday , did a good 400 miles and after that I had to have one!

Renting a car is definitely a good way to see if you like the car. Some dealers may be open to allowing you to test drive for a few days. I didn't do this with the X, but I have done it with cars in the past.

In the press today they are advertising 24 hour test drives. Cheaper than hiring one.

I've seen about half a dozen 500X's on the roads so far (excluding hire cars). Can't help thinking that the amount of hire car examples, plus the 24 hour test drive offer means Fiat isn't selling as many as they hoped, in the UK at least.

Something to do with how badly they handled the 2014 1.2 engine problem (as detailed on Watchdog)? I know there'd probably have been a 500X on my Parents drive to replace their 500 Lounge, if Fiat had displayed better customer service. Instead I have to look at their fugly Nissan Juke!

JTD_Liam said:

I've seen about half a dozen 500X's on the roads so far (excluding hire cars). Can't help thinking that the amount of hire car examples, plus the 24 hour test drive offer means Fiat isn't selling as many as they hoped, in the UK at least.

Something to do with how badly they handled the 2014 1.2 engine problem (as detailed on Watchdog)? I know there'd probably have been a 500X on my Parents drive to replace their 500 Lounge, if Fiat had displayed better customer service. Instead I have to look at their fugly Nissan Juke!

Click to expand...

to a point..,
I know 2 x work colleagues who have taken delivery of 500's in the last few month's - neither had heard of the Euro 6 issues,
and they were in the market for a 500....

I suspect somebody looking for a completely different segment car may be just as in the dark

we have LOTS of hire cars at work ( Abingdon / enterprise)
500l and X variants

saw a 65 reg Giulietta too:yum:

varesecrazy said:

to a point..,
I know 2 x work colleagues who have taken delivery of 500's in the last few month's - neither had heard of the Euro 6 issues,
and they were in the market for a 500....

I suspect somebody looking for a completely different segment car may be just as in the dark

we have LOTS of hire cars at work ( Abingdon / enterprise)
500l and X variants

saw a 65 reg Giulietta too:yum:

Click to expand...

That's a good point. I suppose it's more prevalent in my mind because of the problems documented on here, but if you don't visit forums and happened to miss the couple of Watchdog episodes, you may never know about the 1.2's.

I guess where Fiat might've come a cropper is that a portion of 500X sales should be from people trading up from regular 500s or other Fiat's, like my Parents. There's probably a fair few existing 500/Fiat owners on here who've been put off spending more money on a more expensive Fiat, given the way they handled the 1.2 problems. Even if a third of regular 500 owners bought a 500X, Fiat would be onto a winner, but thus far that appears not to be happening. Given that the X has been largely very well received, I'm struggling to figure out why else it may not be appear to be selling quite as strongly as expected yet.

I'm also worried that they're shifting them onto hire companies, because (other than the regular 500), Fiat's & Alfa's that've been offloaded to hire companies (like the 500L & Giulietta, plus the Bravo & Punto a few years ago) tend to have weaker resale values than those that are left away from fleets (like the Alfa MiTo, Panda 4x4 etc). That said, I'd be quite happy if I ordered a 'Ford Focus or similar' and ended up with a 65 plate Giulietta

JTD_Liam said:

I'm struggling to figure out why else it may not be appear to be selling quite as strongly as expected

Click to expand...

Lots of reasons. Cost is one of them - there are loads of good-looking, capable competitors out there at the same price-point as the 500X. The 500 doesn't have as much competition in its price range, if what you want is something small, cheap to run and achingly stylish, rather than some boring, anonymous box. And while Fiat clearly hoped that the gloss of the 500's chic image would rub off on the 500X, they've already tarnished that image with the oh-so-dumpy 500L. Oh, and did I say cost?

I can't speak for the latest Mokkas, but, as I've mentioned elsewhere on here, we replaced our old (Work's) Zafira with the 1.9 (presumably) FIAT derived diesel with a '64' plate model. There's obviously been a touch or range rationalisation at Vauxhall as, just like the Punto, there seem to be less of a choice. Our old model had electric rear windows, which may not seem important, but if you're trying to stop your rear seat passengers from getting out it is, and it lacks the Traction Control of the last model.

But perhaps the most important change is to a 1.7 CDTi motor. As GM still use a 2.0 litre and now a 1.6, the obvious conclusion is that the 1.7 is a version of the old 1.6 SOHC engine that first appeared in the original FWD Cavalier in the early '80s, but with a Common Rail system fitted.

The result is a car that either bogs down when you try and move off, or spins its wheels. In 2nd as well as 1st in the dry and even 3rd if it's damp. The Mokka I drove was much better behaved but maybe they've just banged a big turbo on the Zaf. That also manifests itself once the clutch is fully up as there is considerable turbo lag.....or lots of clutch slip.

If I'd had the car for 24 hours then I might just put the problems down to me trying to get used to a different car, but after several days or a week then I'd know that it wasn't for me. Plus the fact that you can do far more in a week than 24 or 48 hours.

Having said that, if you want a roomy car with space for an occasional couple of extra passengers, or a very big boot and five people it's still a good car, but personally, I think I'd have to go for the Zafira Tourer with the 2 litre engine or even something totally different.

gar074 said:

Lots of reasons. Cost is one of them - there are loads of good-looking, capable competitors out there at the same price-point as the 500X. The 500 doesn't have as much competition in its price range, if what you want is something small, cheap to run and achingly stylish, rather than some boring, anonymous box. And while Fiat clearly hoped that the gloss of the 500's chic image would rub off on the 500X, they've already tarnished that image with the oh-so-dumpy 500L. Oh, and did I say cost?

Click to expand...

I'd have to agree with much of what you say here. FIAT don't seem to have grasped that perceived values have moved on and they haven't kept up. I've yet to meet someone who has recently bought a Seat or Skoda who's regretted not buying a VW instead. VAG have managed to keep distance between VW/Audi and their lesser brands, without actually making them seem poorer relations.

The Golf GTi and other sporting Polos and Golfs keep on getting rave reviews and provide the requisite "Halo" models that buyers of "cooking" models aspire to, and their friends relate to. The FIAT group seems to rely on the Abarth models but apart from the sporting bits and pieces added onto them, such as sports seats and big wheels and tyres, most of the changes seem to revolve around an accessory shop approach. Stiffer springs, uprated shocks and turning up the turbo. Even the Cloverleaf Alfa Giulietta doesn't get a look in when magazines are comparing Golf GTis with Focus STs and RSs.

Why not? Well, and this is obviously my perception, you have to start with the correct materials in the first place, otherwise you will always be trying to make a silk purse out of a sow' ear. If you want a performance top of the range model for buyers of basic cars to aspire to you have to start with the right suspension layout. If you're going to have a high performance Abarth Punto, you need to have independent suspension at the front and mutli-link at the back. The basic stuff might work with 65 bhp and 1.2 litres but not with getting on for 200!

My old '01 Alfa 156 has the right suspension and feels a world away from most other group products, but even that has a harsh ride. Mind you, the correct tyre pressures for that model are 35 psi all round. Nonetheless, I've yet to see a FIAT/Alfa car come out on top in the ride/handling stakes in a road test against a Ford or VW, and it seems even Vauxhall are upping their game as well. The likes of Kia and Hyundai are also taking ground the Italians should have claimed by now. Many of the mouldings in the Giulietta are better than the 156 and the glove box, which struggles to accommodate much more than a pair of ski gloves is much improved in the newer car. But silly things, such as the door pockets in the 156 that have a felt-like lining, are hard plastic in the MA.

With the announcement of the new Tipo they seem to be trying to out-Korea the Koreans instead of going after VW and Ford. In football terms they're aiming for mid-table in the Premiership rather than to win the European Championship. Which is a pity as, to my eyes, it's a good looking car that seems to offer a "Classy" alternative to the Germans, yet, in the few brief road tests I've seen so far, the same criticisms about cheap plastics are present as they have been virtually since the launch of "my" Panda, the design of which is well over a decade old.

FIAT announced recently that their new group strategy is to offer a two-tier approach. Cheap and cheerful with the Panda, 500L and Tipo, and aspirational with the 500X and new 124. But they have to be careful; the new MX-5 has received great reviews from the press, in large part because they haven't corrupted the chassis with too much power. If FIAT now come along and stick the 1750 from the 4C with around 200bhp they may well ruin it. If they stick with the 1.4 MA from the 500X and Giulietta they may well keep their version as a winner and a better car than the Mazda. But can they resist tinkering? We'll have to wait and see.

More ramblings to come from me on this subject.

With regard

I had a 500X from SIXT over the Christmas period. (Heathrow Terminal 5)

I prefer the 500L as an overall package.

They've sacrificed too much practicality and interior space on the X, IMHO.
And stupid details like the dash headlight switch are just bizarre.