Hi Everyone,

I've been reading through this informative Forum for a few days now and thought it about time to come out of the shadows and ask my question outright!

My daughter bought a 3 year old Fiat 500 Colour Therapy a couple of weeks ago and absolutely loves it! The thing is the radio keeps loosing the FM signal and we just get a hiss. Everything else - CD/Aux/AM are all fine it's just the FM that has an issue. Reading through some posts here it looks like it is the head unit that needs to be replaced but she loves the retro look of the original so much we need to think about either getting an identical replacement or getting the original repaired.

The radio is a Bosch and I have ordered some removal keys to remove it so I can get some more info. We have the 4-digit code but I understand there is another security feature that links the radio to the cars computer called the "CAN" link which inhibits access to enter the code. So my questions are.....

1, If we replace the unit with a second hand unit, purchased from ebay or somewhere, how do we get around the CAN issue?

2, If we remove and send the original head unit off for repair is there a risk the CAN link could be lost and we won't be able to reattach it to the car when we get it back?

3, Is there anything else we need to be aware of please?

Many thanks for reading through my post and thanks, in anticipation, for any help!!

Cheers,
Mike

Before condemning the radio check the aerial as they're known for corrosion at the roof mounting, you'll need to drop the headlining some to get your hand in.

If removed and repaired, can link should not be lost, but if it is, the code should allow the ECU to accept it.
If you get a used one, make sure you get the code. As above, that should allow it to work.
Before that, speak to these guys: http://www.mapleaudio.co.uk/

Wow! Thanks for the quick replies!

My first thought was the aerial - I had an Audi years ago with a bee sting aerial that became corroded. Having said that, I read on a post here that if AM is getting through and it is just FM that is playing up it will be the head unit that is at fault - apparently FM gets through really easily, AM is usually the one that struggles...... our AM is fine!

Thanks for your advice, when I get the radio out I'll check the earthing of the screened cable and also check for a short between the screen and the core. I also intend to stick a bit of wire into the aerial socket of the head to see if FM gets through. This should flag up if there is an aerial issue.

If it is the aerial I don't much fancy taking the lining down!! I have a set of trim removers but never really enjoyed pulling the trip apart!! If I do need to get in there to the base of the aerial is it possible to do it with just removing the two clips right at the back, in other words can I get away without taking the side cheeks behind the back windows out?

Many thanks,
Mike

HVF Fiat500 said:

apparently FM gets through really easily, AM is usually the one that struggles...... our AM is fine!

Click to expand...

Not true at all.

Because of the different ways that fm and AM signals are modulated the fm signal gets a better quality but is not such a strong signal. The AM signal can be broadcast over much greater distances and is less impaired by buildings, structures and car bodies, so while a broken aerial might stifle the FM signal from getting through, the stronger AM signal may still be picked up by the radio.

HVF Fiat500 said:

If it is the aerial I don't much fancy taking the lining down!! I have a set of trim removers but never really enjoyed pulling the trip apart!! If I do need to get in there to the base of the aerial is it possible to do it with just removing the two clips right at the back, in other words can I get away without taking the side cheeks behind the back windows out?

Many thanks,
Mike

Click to expand...

Sadly, a big job.
Can't just drop the rear of the roof lining as it is not flexible enough.
Side trims around teh window need to come off, really tight clips and very likely to break one or more of the lugs moulded into the panel. (Got away with it though)
Might need to release the rear door seals and grab handles to allow more flex.

portland_bill said:

Sadly, a big job.
Can't just drop the rear of the roof lining as it is not flexible enough.
Side trims around teh window need to come off, really tight clips and very likely to break one or more of the lugs moulded into the panel. (Got away with it though)
Might need to release the rear door seals and grab handles to allow more flex.

Click to expand...

I cut my losses, threw in a new radio, plugged in my iPod.

Thanks for the help and advice so far....

The plot thickens though! I got some removal keys, supposedly for a Fiat 500 2008 onwards. My daughter came home for the w/e and I have just tried to remove the radio to check the aerial and try a bit of wire in the aerial socket but the keys don't fit!!

The gap between the holes in the radio fascia is 35mm but the keys prong gap is only 30mm. The key prongs have a dia of 3mm. The top hole on the radio accepts a 3mm dia prong but the bottom hole is visible smaller 2, maybe 2.5mm diameter.

The radio is a Fiat 312 SB12 iv

Any help would be much appreciated! Where can I get some keys that fit?

Many thanks,
Mike

Your thread title refers to a Bosch stereo. Is it?

Blaupunkt used to be part of Bosch, but they sold it off a few years ago. I'm not sure Fiat still fit Blaupunkt radios, as some later models are definitely not Blaupunkt. One thread has mentioned VDO, but I think I remember another manufacturer too. Presumably they have changed the release hole sizes as a theft deterrent.

Once you are sure of the make of radio, try the manufacturer first, and ask them where to get the keys. Please update us here.

Thanks Portland_Bill.

The little card that came with the car says it is a "Fiat 312 SB12 iv" radio. I think the "iv" means ivory - the colour of the unit. The card (it's called a "Passport!") says Bosch.

The car was first registered on 3rd Jan 2014 and it's a Fiat 500 Colour Therapy 1.2.

I've tried to find out more info from Bosch on t'web to no avail so far. The keys I ordered from ebay are called "PC5-83" which were supposed to fit but don't. As mentioned earlier the prong spacing is different.

Many thanks,
Mike

It appears that Bosch are now only into OE fit stuff, having sold off the Blaupunkt aftermarket business. My guess is they changed the release size as an anti-theft attempt.

Have a look here.
http://www.bosch.co.uk/en/uk/our_co...isions_2/car_multimedia_2/car-multimedia.html
Scroll to the bottom of the page to the "send an Email" link. No harm in asking them where to get release keys. Tell them your local dealer can't help.

The official Blaupunkt importer is Autosound. They appear to be so for Bosch too.
http://www.autosound.co.uk/
You could ask them too. Ask very nicely. I've tried to deal with them in the past, not very helpful people. Unless you wish to spend lots of money with them.

HVF Fiat500 said:

Thanks for the help and advice so far....

The plot thickens though! I got some removal keys, supposedly for a Fiat 500 2008 onwards. My daughter came home for the w/e and I have just tried to remove the radio to check the aerial and try a bit of wire in the aerial socket but the keys don't fit!!

The gap between the holes in the radio fascia is 35mm but the keys prong gap is only 30mm. The key prongs have a dia of 3mm. The top hole on the radio accepts a 3mm dia prong but the bottom hole is visible smaller 2, maybe 2.5mm diameter.

The radio is a Fiat 312 SB12 iv

Any help would be much appreciated! Where can I get some keys that fit?

Many thanks,
Mike

Click to expand...

I found some keys that fitted - they weren't special Fiat ones or anything. Before that we actually mocked up our own set haha! I remember the gap being a bit odd, and it felt a bit like i was forcing them in. Might be worth a trip by your local Halfrauds to see if one of them have the keys. At least you can return them if need be.

2008 onwards covers both the later Blaupunkt models, and the current Bosch models as far as I know.

Good luck with it.

A bit of an update.... I more accurately measured the hole spacing in the fascia and the diameter of the holes. The spacing is exactly 35mm. To measure the hole dia I used a set of drills - the top holes are exactly 3.5mm dia and the bottom holes are exactly 3mm. Whatever key fits will need a perfect diameter of 3mm to fit, so the barb or catch at the end of the prongs must have a round cross section. The PC5-83 keys I have have 3mm dia rods but the very ends of the prongs are squashed into a screwdriver blade which won't fit into the bottom hole.

Thanks portland_bill, I tried Bosch but to no avail, so far. I have ordered some other keys with a 35mm separation - I'll have to see what the end of the prongs look like and see if they'll fit. I'll report back when I've tried them.

Thanks Noxide. Funnily enough, when I pushed the back of a 3mm drill bit into the holes I could feel a bit of resistance as the prongs, presumably, open up the catches and I made up a pair of keys from 3mm carbon fibre rod but I couldn't get them to grip the radio to pull it out. There must be some form of barb on the end to allow the radio to be gripped and pulled out. If anyone has a photo or description of what sort of barb works I'd love to see it please!

Cheers,
Mike

HVF Fiat500 said:

A bit of an update.... I more accurately measured the hole spacing in the fascia and the diameter of the holes. The spacing is exactly 35mm. To measure the hole dia I used a set of drills - the top holes are exactly 3.5mm dia and the bottom holes are exactly 3mm. Whatever key fits will need a perfect diameter of 3mm to fit, so the barb or catch at the end of the prongs must have a round cross section. The PC5-83 keys I have have 3mm dia rods but the very ends of the prongs are squashed into a screwdriver blade which won't fit into the bottom hole.

Thanks portland_bill, I tried Bosch but to no avail, so far. I have ordered some other keys with a 35mm separation - I'll have to see what the end of the prongs look like and see if they'll fit. I'll report back when I've tried them.

Thanks Noxide. Funnily enough, when I pushed the back of a 3mm drill bit into the holes I could feel a bit of resistance as the prongs, presumably, open up the catches and I made up a pair of keys from 3mm carbon fibre rod but I couldn't get them to grip the radio to pull it out. There must be some form of barb on the end to allow the radio to be gripped and pulled out. If anyone has a photo or description of what sort of barb works I'd love to see it please!

Cheers,
Mike

Click to expand...

Find suitable rods that fit the holes. Push them into holes.
Then push ends of rods sideways outward from centre of radio then pull toward you .
Give it a go.

The second set of keys arrived but they are wrong - another set of 30mm spaced prongs ARGHH!! They'll be going back!

I bent some 3mm wire and tried to pull the radio out as jackwhoo suggested but it won't budge! I think there should be some sort of barb on the end of the prongs - like a crochet hook or something to grip onto the radio chassis. Try as I might the prongs just pull out!

Mysteriously, some FM channels are now getting through but only Radio 1 and Classic FM at the moment. This turned my attention back to the aerial. With the radio on FM I grabbed the aerial to try and undo it and the radio signal was lost - when I let go the signal was back! I'd expect me holding the aerial would turn my body into an aerial and enhance the signal?!??

Can anyone explain that phenomena please?

I'd still like to get the radio out to check the connections. If anyone has a set of keys that work please post a photo so I can see what the ends of the prongs are like. Then I'll get my files out and try to copy them!

Cheers,
Mike

Might just need a new aerial mast. Some have a carbon fibre core and constant flexing can cause this core to break up, destroying the signal. happens very quickly if some sort of embellisher is fitted, such as a mickey mouse or similar. These catch the wind and as speed increases they bend the aerial causing the core to fracture.

You now have lots of keys. They probably all have a barbed end. Cut a similar barb into your own made keys.

An update on this saga!

I finally managed to get the radio out. Boy, it was a tight fit!!

I have ruled out the radio head as the problem. I pushed a foot long bit of wire into the aerial socket and the FM signal was good and strong with lots of channels to choose from. The AM was a bit naff but this was with the wire inside the car.

Whilst the aerial lead was disconnected I checked for earth continuity between the screen of the cable and earth - all good. I also checked for earth leakage between the screen and the aerial core and got open circuit until I set my Multimeter to the highest ohm setting and then got a reading so there is some leakage.

Thanks portland-bill for the heads up on the antenna. I unscrewed the stalk and screwed a bolt in with the above mentioned foot of wire attached and the reception was worse, so I think the stalk is OK.

The only things left are the aerial base and the cable from the base to the head. Both of these will need me to get to the base of the aerial. I managed to get the two lining clips out and I can just get my hands into the void where the base comes through but there isn't much room. It looks like I'm going to have to take the C panels off to improve access (as portland-bill mentioned earlier) but that looks a bit daunting!!

I'd welcome anyone's views on my diagnosis of the fault being the aerial base please. I'd also welcome any advice on removing the C-panels please.

Many thanks
Mike

Any update on checking the aerial base?

i think i have the same problem, my FM reception is bad, radio has difficulty locking in on a frequency and a lot of noise. Sometimes 1 or 2 channels have 'ok' reception, but that's always only temporary. Also driving (reving the gas pedal) influences the radio (didn't check AM signal).


I once tried to remove the lining to check the aerial base. I removed the two 'pine-tree' plugs and also the plastic covers at both sides in the trunk. (C-style covers?)
The covers are easy to remove. Put the backseats down and search for the 2 philip screws. Once removed, the plastic cover is held by some clips and the rubber sealing of your backdoor.

Ok this i how far i got. I was only capable of bending the lining a little bit and put my hand inside it. I could feel the aerial base and another 'box' it was connected to. But i couldn't see anything.

So if someone know what more to do to get to the aerial base.... you're welcome .



*nooby thougts*
If i'm not mistaken the aerial base has a signal amplifier. If the amplifier does not work, the signal could be worse than the signal of a passive aerial. Isn't it possible to bypass this by installing a signal booster directy to the head unit?
(only a couple buck on ebay or aliexpress)

And the TS said a foot long loose wire works with FM....Isn't it possible to connect a longer wire and jus let the wire hang loose behind the dashboard?

I managed to sort ours out. I ordered a replacement base off ebay and managed to remove and replace the base without having to remove the C panels. It is VERY tight and everything had to be done by feel but it is possible with patience and persistence.

I took the base unit to bits and there is a copper strip which just sits on the base of the antenna. This strip had corroded and was causing a bad connection - poor design in my view but what can you do. The replacement base works a treat with full FM signals now being received.

I needn't have bothered though! It's my daughters car and she always plugs her i-phone in..... hay ho!!

Good luck with changing yours if you decide to give it a go!!

cheers,
Mike

now i'm curious and still have to decide if i'm going to do it or not. Could you give me a link to the base you bought at eBay? (edit: i already found some bases)
And how is de base attached? i assume with a Nut (size?) and how do you know how to connect the cables just by feels?

And the base is connected to a small box right? do you know what this box is?
But you bend the lining right? Didn't it fold or creased? From what i remembered it was really really really tight. I couldn't even manage to take a photo of the between space between the lining and the roof.