After some info on the following?

I noticed that the handbrake on my daughters 2008 1.2 lounge was not holding on the handbrake as it should and that the lever was a tad high.

So today I jacked it up and found that the nearside wheel was dragging on the handbrake quite badly. Offside was ok. However, when pulling the handbrake back on, the nearside was the same, i.e you could still turn the wheel albeit it dragging heavily but it wasn't locking up.

So I took the drum of and a good job I did. The handbrake operating arm on the trailing shoe was seized solid. The leading shoe was worn right down and the worse thing of all? The wheel cylinder as damp and wet from worn seals!

So I've bought 2 new cylinders and shoes for a complete rebuild.

Next issue? the brake pipe unions were seized on the pipes. So I've had to make up new rear pipes to the flexibles.

But can ANYONE supply the following info.

1. the correct method for initially setting up the handbrake and then the final adjusting procedure?
2. the torque setting for the 32mm rear wheel bearing nut?

I think it'll be roughly the same as others and thats to slacken off the cables at the lever, adjust the shoes to just allow the drum to fit with a very slight drag, then adjust the cables at the lever so that you have 5-6 clicks to a locked rear wheel?

I have googled for it and believe it or not, found nothing as was the case with the search function on the forum?

Thanks in advance

i'll look later but you DON'T have to remove the hub nut 220ftlbs I think, new fitting kit may be required

John202020 said:

i'll look later but you DON'T have to remove the hub nut 220ftlbs I think, new fitting kit may be required

Click to expand...

Hi. If you could that would be great.

You do need to remove the bearing assembly if replacing the wheel cylinder I'm afraid. One of the 10mm bolts holding the wheel cylinder is partially obscured by the actual rear beam. There is no way you can get a socket or a spanner on it enough to loosen it. So you need to release the back plate to bring it forward, which requires the bearing hub assembly to come off.

Anyone out there re the setting up of the handbrake? Before I buy a haynes manual that I'll never use again??

I replaced a wheel cylinder on mine 59 plate without removing the hub the bolts that were thankfully not very tight at all one comes out fine the other can be undone and with a(open ended spanner) bit wiggling of the cylinder(pull it outwards ) whilst undoing the bolt, then remove pipe and it can be removed hub in situ.
Re assemble everything lube the self adjuster bleed brakes operate hand brake and the self should auto adjust, mine didn't I had to remove the (new) hubs several times racking round the self adjuster until the hub just dragged pressing the brake pedal to help set and check, hand brake full on at 5/6 clicks just start to drag at 1/2 clicks.

If need be chisel off the hard to remove bolt head and use new bolts? Hub nut torque is as above don't remove it unless you can tighten it correctly as it's way above a "normal" torque wrench

John202020 said:

I replaced a wheel cylinder on mine 59 plate without removing the hub the bolts that were thankfully not very tight at all one comes out fine the other can be undone and with a(open ended spanner) bit wiggling of the cylinder(pull it outwards ) whilst undoing the bolt, then remove pipe and it can be removed hub in situ.
Re assemble everything lube the self adjuster bleed brakes operate hand brake and the self should auto adjust, mine didn't I had to remove the (new) hubs several times racking round the self adjuster until the hub just dragged pressing the brake pedal to help set and check, hand brake full on at 5/6 clicks just start to drag at 1/2 clicks.

Click to expand...

The bolts were pretty rusty to be honest and but even an open ended spanner on one bolt would only fit 2 flats of the bolt and even then not fully. I'll take a picture. It's quicker to whip the hub off and use a 6 sided socket on it. Hammer and chisels are only going to damage more than it's trying to attempt.

I have calibrated torque wrenches here. So hub nuts are not an issue. New nuts should be used as they are pinch nuts, i.e they are squashed to a slightly oval shape on the outside so they grip the thread of the stub axle.

I've assembled one side so that the drum just drags on the shoes. I'll then do the other side, set that up the same and do the brake pedal push. Then readjust the handbrake.

Just need that torque setting now if anyone has it?

This may help

Many thanks for that. All finished. other side was actually worse although the handbrake lever arm wasn't seized hence the handbrake was working that side. But wheel cylinder was completely shot. Needed to make another hard brake line to the flexible as it was the same as the passengers side with the pipe being solid in the union.

Luckily I had a reel of pipe, some unions and I have a pipe flaring kit.

Handbrake now holds firm on 5 clicks and obviously, knowing whats now in there can only be a good thing when little cherub is cruising about on L Plates.

Thanks for the settings John, it's helped a great deal.

B7TMW said:

Many thanks for that. All finished. other side was actually worse although the handbrake lever arm wasn't seized hence the handbrake was working that side. But wheel cylinder was completely shot. Needed to make another hard brake line to the flexible as it was the same as the passengers side with the pipe being solid in the union.

Luckily I had a reel of pipe, some unions and I have a pipe flaring kit.

Handbrake now holds firm on 5 clicks and obviously, knowing whats now in there can only be a good thing when little cherub is cruising about on L Plates.

Thanks for the settings John, it's helped a great deal.

Click to expand...

Given its a 2008 have you had any issues with the rear hatch wires ours started to fail a few months ago now fixed(properly)

No nothing as yet. Everything works as it should. The cars pretty much perfect except for an exhaust that, although doesn't leak, looks like it's come off the titanic.

However, I work on BMW's daily and tailgate wiring and bootlid wiring are common repairs for me so it's not something that worries me a great deal.

What was the state of the rest of the rear suspension assembly in terms of corrosion on your 2008? Having just tidied up that area on my mum's 2010 500 it seems that every car 5 years old or more needs the whole back end dismantling (springs, shocks, brakes, hubs...) and all the metal components sanding / grinding / blasting back to bare metal for proper extensive rustproofing.

I tried to pull the brake drums of for a clean and inspect but just couldn't shift them at all by tapping and levering. The retaining bolts came off fine and it spins nicely.. car has only done 19K miles and the drums weren't rusty so I don't think there's internal wear or corrosion, lips etc.

Any tips for removal? are there proper pullers? I suspect it may be stuck around the protruding bit if the hub in the middle.. they look like different metal types so perhaps there's corrosion there?

The advice to remove the drums in the Haynes manual is to put two bolts in the locating stud holes and force off the hub (destroying the fixing kit in my case, new one required ((for cars without abs even though it has abs))

My drums were terrible you can see just how much has rusted away by th bit left

Yes I suppose a custom puller braced against the end of the hub would do it.

There are 2 problems with this area of the 500 / Ka / Panda I think... firstly the quality of the paint is total garbage these days and secondly I think water just stays trapped and festers away on everything.

When you think of how many of these cars have been made there will be a huge burden of repairs and maintenance down the line... terrible for a modern car which should really last say 12 years no problems...

bluejohn125 said:

What was the state of the rest of the rear suspension assembly in terms of corrosion on your 2008? Having just tidied up that area on my mum's 2010 500 it seems that every car 5 years old or more needs the whole back end dismantling (springs, shocks, brakes, hubs...) and all the metal components sanding / grinding / blasting back to bare metal for proper extensive rustproofing.

I tried to pull the brake drums of for a clean and inspect but just couldn't shift them at all by tapping and levering. The retaining bolts came off fine and it spins nicely.. car has only done 19K miles and the drums weren't rusty so I don't think there's internal wear or corrosion, lips etc.

Any tips for removal? are there proper pullers? I suspect it may be stuck around the protruding bit if the hub in the middle.. they look like different metal types so perhaps there's corrosion there?

Click to expand...

Yes there's signs of deterioration under there but I've seen a lot worse. One thing that is strange is that the rear springs sit straight in the rear beam with no rubber base? The top has a rubber mounting that the spring locates to but the bottom has nothing. This has resulted in chafing and a dusty rusty chafing which must increase noise. But I guess they are all like it. I'm used to spring pads top and bottom.

Re the drum removal, I removed the centre console and backed off the cable adjuster so that both cables could physically be disconnected. That way you know the shoes SHOULD be backed off to maximum amount. I say should but if the lever arm on the trailing shoe has seized as ours had, its an issue. Hit the drum hard a few times around the rim and front to try to release any contact still present.

The bolt method above is okay as it pulls off the drum equally. If neither works then brute force is needed and as said, a new set of shoes and a fitting kit may be required.

The cause of this issue (despite the mileage) is that a rim of corrosion (and a slight lip) forms between the edge of the drum and where the shoe starts to grip. The shoes then self adjust behind that lip. That's whats stopping the drum from coming off. Not much you can do at this point but before reassembly, I always grind that lip away so that the edge of the drum is flush with the wear area of the shoes. This will allow you to adjust the shoes to maximum affect while still allowing the drum to come on and off. If you leave that lip in place, the shoes have to be adjusted to a lesser amount to allow that lip to pass over. You then have a greater gap between the shoe and the show contact area of the drum.

At 19k miles I wouldn't expect too many issues but just the state of the wheel cylinders on ours would want me to check regardless to be honest.

John202020 said:

My drums were terrible you can see just how much has rusted away by th bit left

Click to expand...

That's bad! Ours were nothing like that, they still have most of their black paint on them.

I think you may be right about the spring bottoms... I'm doing the same clean-up to a Rover 75 (12 years old) and there is a rubber pad fitted to that.

I don't think the drum issue is due to a lip... you only detect that when there has been some movement but I get absolutely nothing budging on either side. I think it's stuck in the centre...

There was quite a bit of black dirty dusty crap that fell out of one drum when I bashed and span it, so they definitely need inspecting and cleaning...

The self adjuster keeps the shoes right out disconnecting the hand brake makes little to no difference as, as you say it's the lip that gave issue (Nissan had a cover to turn the auto adjuster back for this very reason) given the state of the hubs I don't think they were ever painted.

bluejohn125 said:

I think you may be right about the spring bottoms... I'm doing the same clean-up to a Rover 75 (12 years old) and there is a rubber pad fitted to that.

I don't think the drum issue is due to a lip... you only detect that when there has been some movement but I get absolutely nothing budging on either side. I think it's stuck in the centre...

There was quite a bit of black dirty dusty crap that fell out of one drum when I bashed and span it, so they definitely need inspecting and cleaning...

Click to expand...

The only other option if it's stuck in the middle is to remove the hub nut (must replace with new). then see if the drum comes off (complete with hub and bearing). If it still doesn't come off then it must be the shoes. If it does come off you can free the seized centre drum to hub contact by placing the drum on two axle stands, block of wood over the centre of the hub (after some release agent has been allowed to penetrate), and give the wood a good clout. Put something underneath to protect the hub as it falls as you may damage the ABS pick up ring.

I had to do exactly this last week when doing an Astra H rear wheel bearing. The disc was seized solid to the hub bearing assembly.

So after 2 years the auto adjusters still don't work( I've just manually wound them), just in case anyone is replacing their rear brakes,
The shoes come in, for cars with ABS, and, without ABS.

The shoe fitting kit also comes in two forms, with and without ABS, so be quite careful buying as both will fit but not work correctly.

https://www.brakebook.com/bb/mintex/en_GB/PKW/35/6396/23175/applicationSearch.xhtml