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Old 19-07-2017   #16
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by iphotoguys View Post
Sounds good but I was wondering how much did your car insurance went up?
Depends on your insurance company. Some will refuse cover and just cancel your policy.

I'd advise getting the quote first before doing the remap.

I'm not suggesting anyone would do this, but not declaring it is just plain stupid.
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Old 19-07-2017   #17
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Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by p6baseunit View Post
Why would you tell the insurance company? This a 1.2 after all, we weren't taking about adding 40bhp to an Abarth
My understanding is that it effectively voids your insurance cover if you don't declare you have 'modified' your vehicle. There is some info here, the gains in horsepower are less than 10% (though it doesn't mention drivability improvements). http://www.quantumtuning.co.uk/car-r...Fiat&Range=500

Superchips had this to say about insurance...
At Superchips we tell everyone who is interested in an ECU Remap that they must inform their car insurance company. This is because ECU remapping affects your carís performance. Which is why you buy one, of course! You should inform your insurer of modifications to your carís performance. Premiums may remain unchanged by using our specialist partners, Adrian Flux, 0800 587 2943 Ė www.adrianflux.co.uk, who understand the benefits a Superchip brings.
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Last edited by iphotoguys; 19-07-2017 at 22:33.
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Old 19-07-2017   #18
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

I can't see how they can prove that my ECU was reprogrammed to give it back the power of the Euro5 set up.
It wasn't chipped, it was remapped to return the power robbed by the Euro6 emissions set up.
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Last edited by p6baseunit; 19-07-2017 at 22:45.
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Old 19-07-2017   #19
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

It's a course of action I would recommend to anyone with a 1.2 unable to do very steep hill starts
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Old 20-07-2017   #20
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by p6baseunit View Post
Why would you tell the insurance company?
Because if you don't, you're driving uninsured.

It's easy enough for a specialist forensic scientist to check if the car's mapping has been modified. The police will likely do this after an accident involving death or serious injury; the insurers will likely do this if facing a significant claim.

It may not be likely, but the police can also do a spot roadside check. If they find evidence of a remap, then one phone call to your insurance company and your car will be going to the police pound on a transporter. You will be going home on the bus with a fixed penalty notice for £300 & 6 points in your pocket.

Something not that dissimilar happened recently to someone I know. A police team were parked in a layby just down the road from the staff car park of a large company; they were pulling cars that had driven out at random, looking for insurance anomolies. Turns out this person had (unknowingly) failed to check their insurance covered driving to and from a place of work; they went home on the bus with a FPN in their pocket. By the time they'd sorted out the insurance, recovered the car and paid the FPN, they were already down over £800 and with another 6 points on their licence, the increase in their next few years insurance premiums will add significantly to that.

If you're involved in an accident in which someone dies, then there is a separate offence of causing death by driving whilst uninsured; you don't even have to have been driving carelessly. The starting point for sentencing is 12 months imprisonment. If you're just driving along the high street and a drunk pedestrian jumps off the pavement in front of you, not declaring a remap could ruin your life.

There's a question on all insurance proposal forms: "Has the vehicle been modified?". Insurers, and the police, take this much more seriously, and interpret it much more strictly, than some car owners.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 20-07-2017 at 10:40.
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Old 20-07-2017   #21
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Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
It may not be likely, but the police can also do a spot roadside check. If they find evidence of a remap, then one phone call to your insurance company and your car will be going to the police pound on a transporter. You will be going home on the bus with a fixed penalty notice for £300 & 6 points in your pocket.

This is not true, the police have no such equipment to do 'roadside check' to see if the car had been remapped. Aside from the fact there is no one catch all device that can look at every single car on the road to do such a check, the police would not be qualified to know what was a remap versus what is normal parameters. For example my car has the same engine as cars made a month or two before, but mine had a different map giving it 10bhp more, from the factory, there would be nothing to stop someone with an older car using that standard remap on their older lower powered car, at the road side how would he police know what was what ?

Also they talked a couple of years back about MOT testers checking if a car had been modified by checking the ECU map, which quickly went out of the window when they found it just wasn't practical or feasible due to the amount of equipment and specialty knowledge involved.

I know a chap who will remap any car by plugging in and going in and directly editing the parameters of the engine, there is no flash software update meaning the rest of the code remains largely untouched and you would really need to know exactly what you were looking at to know anything had been changed.

And what about the poor bugger who buys a car with absolutely no idea that it has been remapped, you gonna take every new car you buy to get this tested just in case.

Insurance companies again are not going to spend a fortune having the car tested for any remap, usually you don't have an accident unless one party or the other isn't driving like a Twonk, so what map the car is running with would make a difference to that. And if you have an accident because you're going too fast, remap or not that's not going to have changed the fact you were going to fast. The remap its self is not going to have caused the accident, they may look more in depth if the cars breaks weren't working for example they might look at the abs software and system.

The only thing on the ECU the police would be interested in is the data recorded prior to the accident, as a lot of newer cars have a certain element of black box recording capabilities.


Yes you should absolutely tell your insurance company if you have changed anything from standard on your car, what you've posted above is nonsense and scaremongering.

It's a bit different if someone has told their insurance company they are not using their car to get to work, then they are caught leaving work in that car, that doesn't require a great deal of investigative work.
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Old 20-07-2017   #22
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Here in NSW, Australia, I can say with 100% certainty that police would not check Ecu for remaps.
If someone is driving a race car which is not roadworthy on a public road, then they would take action.

Even in major collisions, only factors that contributed or one of the parties claim was a reason for accident would be investigated (eg. a party claims brakes failed, so that would be investigated).

If someone remapped a 1.2 ltr engine to have different torque output lower in rev range would be of no concern.

Now if someone put 4 turbos on an engine, had no appropriate brakes and went on to lose control and.mow down 10 pedestrians, that would be different.
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Old 20-07-2017   #23
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by p6baseunit View Post
Why would you tell the insurance company? This a 1.2 after all, we weren't taking about adding 40bhp to an Abarth
Your insurance is based on the details given at time of purchase of insurance. IF you modify in any way it is part of the agreement that you notify them. It may not cause any rise in premiums, but if you have modified and are in an accident, then any non disclosed mods will be their get out clause.
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Old 20-07-2017   #24
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
... what you've posted above is nonsense and scaremongering.
So what exactly are you trying to say? That it's OK for someone to break the law if they don't think they'll get caught??

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Old 20-07-2017   #25
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
So what exactly are you trying to say? That it's OK for someone to break the law if they don't think they'll get caught??



So what are you trying to say? Making up a load of nonsense to scare someone into doing something is ok ?

As I stated above if you have a car remapped you should definitely tell your insurance company, but.... getting a remap on an otherwise standard car is usually going to only get a few extra BHP, certainly not enough to make a huge difference to the dynamics of the car, where as fitting a huge turbo as mentioned, for example may make a very big difference to the performance and therefore the likelihood to have an accident. The other reason to tell the insurance company is so they know what they are paying out for if there is an accident. So if they think your car has bog standard steel wheels and you've fitted 18" alloys, guess what they won't be replacing if you have an accident and haven't told them.
An ECU remap is not something tangible that you can loose in and accident, either the car is a write off in which case you go buy a new car anyway, or the car is fixed in which case you've not lost the remap.

For all your claims above you might as well say that if you don't report your remap to your insurance company, then evil flying monkeys will come and carry your car off to hell where you will never get it back and be left with a hefty hell storage bill to pay, which does happen (insert anecdote about this happening to someone I knew once, here)

Seriously though you can only give the information and let grown adults make there own decisions, making up a load guff that isn't going to happen and is not believable will only damage the reputation of the forum and credibility of any future information given.

Basically this is a 'boy who cried wolf' situation, so when you do really need to warn someone about a potential problem or concern, they're not going to take it seriously.
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Old 20-07-2017   #26
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

All a bit OTT for a 1.2 Fiat...
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Last edited by p6baseunit; 20-07-2017 at 13:08.
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Old 20-07-2017   #27
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

A specialist forensic scientist costs money, you think this is going to happen with an insurance company not wanting to pay out on a Fiat 1.2?
Anyhow it is no longer a concern as both my 500s have now been exported.
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Old 20-07-2017   #28
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by p6baseunit View Post
Why would you tell the insurance company? This a 1.2 after all, we weren't taking about adding 40bhp to an Abarth
Why? Because it's a condition of your insurance that you tell them of any change that may affect the policy. At least is it on every policy I've ever seen.
Any modification could in theory lead to cancellation of insurance. Any engine remap does need to be reported. Some insurers will refuse any modifications. And don't think they won't notice. It is becoming more and more common for insurers to access the vehicles electronic systems following an accident as they can record useful information. A check of the ECU checksum will tell if it has been re-mapped. Receipts left with car documents are a give away too. And in your case they don't have to bother as you have recorded the modification on a public forum. Insurers look at social media too.
While the insurer has to pay out any 3rd party claim, they may not pay for your car or even sue you to recover the 3rd party costs.


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Old 20-07-2017   #29
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

A specialist forensic scientist costs money, you think this is going to happen with an insurance company not wanting to pay out on a Fiat 1.2?
Anyhow it is no longer a concern as both my 500s have now been exported.
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Old 20-07-2017   #30
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Re: Remapping a 1.2 Cat6 convertible

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post


<SNIP>

I know a chap who will remap any car by plugging in and going in and directly editing the parameters of the engine, there is no flash software update meaning the rest of the code remains largely untouched and you would really need to know exactly what you were looking at to know anything had been changed.

<SNIP>

Absolute nonsense, a remap by definition changes the fuelling (and other) maps of the car. These are stored in EEPROM ("flash memory") on any production ECU that can be changed by plugging in. Any changes are easy to spot by using the checksum of the memory. Nothing special required. I don't know of any police force that does this but that does not mean they can't. I'm aware of some of the things they can do with phones and computers so don't bet on them not.
see;
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...52146517300376
http://evidencesolutions.com/web/ind...nalysis-2.html
https://synercontechnologies.com/sss2/


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