burrowsdeano said:

get somebody to look at the above if you are unable to live with the issue

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it may cost you quite a bit tho to get a garage to check and if need be replace the parts listed but if this is fiats procedure then you have no chance of finding an independent garage to sort it on the cheap!! they spend millions investigating issues like this so im confident they know what they are talking about

Looking at your post and your problem, with it only being the first 10 to 15 seconds
I would be pointed towards the cold start mixture set by the ECU. Sounds very much like the mixture is not getting enriched correctly for cold start.

As you've changed plugs and maybe filter already, it would not hurt to run through all the air circulation pipes filter breathers and valves, they do get restricted from time to time and it makes for good serving.

The winter does show the problems up which you dont notice all year.

Hi,
I'll start off by apologising to Melanabb who obviously took offence to my comment about the special start procedure. My girlfriend wouldn't understand and indeed why should she as we purchased a modern car for its reliability and ease of use. I also apologise to the non technical males.

The reason for coming to the forum was to ask if anyone has experienced this problem before, and as I said in post number 11 I did use the search function but thought about starting a new topic as I thought the ones I read didn't quite match my problem. I was not aware the engine was the same as fitted to a Panda so didn't search there.
Obviously some members have made their minds up about me stating that I'll never be able to fix the problem as I don't have the technical knowhow or equipment. Thats fine by me but how can anyone judge my technical knowhow or quality of tooling I have access to from a few posts on here?
Any way, rant over and let's move on if you'll allow.

I must say I found jrkitching post number 13 very interesting about the leaking injectors and it was this kind of input that I was after. Even if this is not the problem, it is something that can be eliminated without cost or much effort. If we need new injectors, we'll buy them.
Thanks also to Burrowsdeano for posting the service letter. Again very interesting and there may be some relevant points there also.

Anyway, thanks for all your help. It's been very interesting listening to people's expectations of how their cars should run but I'm not prepared to accept the weird ways especially when it never used to behave like it does now.

Russwh said:

Anyway, thanks for all your help.

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You're most welcome. I've often thought that if we do have a breakthrough in understanding what's behind this common issue, it might come via a Ford channel, as their franchised dealers seem prepared to put a little more effort into listening to owners and trying to fix problems.

Russwh said:

Anyway, thanks for all your help. It's been very interesting listening to people's expectations of how their cars should run but I'm not prepared to accept the weird ways especially when it never used to behave like it does now.

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Neither are we, which is why we try to find pragmatic solutions in spite of the shortcomings of the manufacturer and dealer network.

My own view is that over time, a combination of wear, contamination buildup and shifting component tolerances push the engines beyond the point where they can reliably run cleanly when cold. 'Better than OEM' spark plugs removes one of the factors, and is often enough to bring things back into line; hence fitting Iridium plugs can get everything running smoothly again.

Some folks have reported that using premium fuels helps, but this needs to be done as a long term strategy, and preferably from when the engine is new.

The issues originally mentioned is to do with the VVT deployed on the 1.2 8v which unlike on DOHC engines has an effect on the exhaust and inlet cycles both at the same time because the FIRE engine is SOHC. During start up the VVT is in a locked position, thus causing the system to over-fuel to heat-up quicker and reduce emissions. Sometimes setting off quickly from cold start up leads to bogging down, slight misfire and blue smoke which disappears after 10-20 seconds. So its entirely normal and to be expected due to an engine design that isn't really conducive to VVT.

Russwh.

I hope you find the solution and return and tell us what it was.

Phillip

I had this but mine was also with a bit of jerky driving, mainly when cold. I changed spark plugs and top o2 sensor and now as good as gold

These are the cheapest plugs I can find which I believe are the correct ones(check for your spec)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denso-IXU...957857?hash=item5435171461:g:hgsAAOSwH3NXnNJO
Typecastboy's Lambda suggestion may also have merit, found a "cheap" direct fit one on shop4parts but did not say if it was post or pre cat you can bet its the other more expensive one, though a exhaust gas emissions check will show how the Lambda was doing and if it was close to being out of spec even though still working?

Both sensors are actually the same

John202020 said:

These are the cheapest plugs I can find which I believe are the correct ones (check for your spec)

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There's actually no direct Ir equivalent for the factory fit 1.2 Plugs, but the IXU22 will fit without issues - see the main thread for the detail behind this.

NGK DCPR7EIX is a direct replacement for IXU22; some have reported that they are longer lasting than the Denso's; pricing is similar. Either will be significantly more durable than the cheap crappy OEM plugs.*

Note this is a correction from a referencing mistake I made earlier - sorry

Russwh said:

Hi,
I'll start off by apologising to Melanabb who obviously took offence to my comment about the special start procedure. My girlfriend wouldn't understand and indeed why should she as we purchased a modern car for its reliability and ease of use. I also apologise to the non technical males.

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No need to apologise really. I just couldn't help commenting Good will all around etc.... Wish you well finding the solution to cold start problems!

jrkitching said:

There's actually no direct Ir equivalent for the factory fit 1.2 Plugs, but the IXU22 will fit without issues - see the main thread for the detail behind this.

NGK BPR7EIX is a direct replacement for IXU22; some have reported that they are longer lasting than the Denso's; pricing is similar. Either will be significantly more durable than the cheap crappy OEM plugs.

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Thanks JR, I've now found these even cheaper and are only about twice the price of "standard" ones but will last at least 5 years?
Corrected spec http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-NGK-DC...ykmZTO8lb&clk_rvr_id=1129416179066&rmvSB=true

John202020 said:

Thanks JR, I've now found these even cheaper and are only about twice the price of "standard" ones but will last at least 5 years?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-NGK-IRIDIUM-IX-BPR7EIX-4055-SPARK-PLUGS-1986-Alfa-Romeo-Spider-Graduate-/151121364791?hash=item232f890737:g:3bIAAOxyVUxSMutv

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John, sorry but I've made a slip of the keyboard in my earlier post & put in the wrong plug reference.

The correct NGK Iridium for the 1.2/1.4 500 is NGK DCPR7EIX.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-NGK-DC...313405?hash=item23385a8b7d:g:fP4AAOxykmZTO8lb

I'll take the wrong ones out of my watched list!

Hi i own a 2014 ford ka with 75000 mls FSH recently serviced by myself ,A few weeks ago i noticed a miss fire on start up for a couple of seconds and would not do it again until the next morning. After making a few enquires with a friend we decided to clean out ( very carefully) the top of the THROTTLE BODY. Remove the air filter housing use brake clean a cloth and a very small brush to remove all the black build up, i did this six weeks ago and its still running great .hope this works for you