Hi, my 2008 diesel 500 developed another fault today.
The instrument cluster/speedo unit went faulty today while driving, at first it was just a few LCD segments then a few more and so on until now I have no mileage, no temp, no fuel, no time etc
This also happened briefly the other day but not as severe then started working again after turning off and restarting.
Has anyone else had this fault.?
Thinking it's probably a new cluster
Any suggestions please

Has anybody fitted a second hand cluster.?
Did you have any issues with mileage.?
Is the mileage stored in the cluster over written from the mileage in the body computer.??

Thefox said:

Has anybody fitted a second hand cluster.?
Did you have any issues with mileage.?
Is the mileage stored in the cluster over written from the mileage in the body computer.??

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Several folks have posted to say they've done this successfully,

You'll need to align the new cluster to the body computer once you've installed it - the easiest way is to use multiecuscan.

The alignment process will overwrite the mileage in the replaced cluster with the important proviso that you can only go upwards, so you need to find a secondhand cluster with a lower mileage than that which is currently stored in your car's body computer.

If you've got multiecuscan, it seems like a straightforward job.

The alignment does not actually correct the mileage you have to do this separately by accessing the dashboard node separately and manually entering the mileage from the old cluster. You are right however that the mileage can only go up on the cluster

Thanks, I don't suppose you guys have seen the fault im having.?? When the fault is present, the speedo and rev counter still work, engine warning lights work ok , engine starts and runs ok and dpf regen is still possible.

jrkitching said:

.....you need to find a secondhand cluster with a lower mileage than that which is currently stored in your car's body computer.

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How the heck can you do that?
Especially if your car is a low mileage one.
They would need to advertise the cluster mileage when they sell it. If the seller doesn't know what the mileage is, what then??

Can you fit any one, then move the mileage forward to 999,999, then later, move it forward to the "correct" mileage?

Sounds like a minefield to me.
Mick.

Mick F said:

Can you fit any one, then move the mileage forward to 999,999, then later, move it forward to the "correct" mileage?

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No.

I think you're trying to apply analog logic to digital electronics. The actual data stored is likely both encrypted and checksummed precisely to prevent that sort of tampering.

It might be hackable, but folks with that level of skill don't need to resort to shady behaviour to make a living and can generally be trusted not to put that sort of information into the public domain.

You can't wind a few thousand miles off with a black & decker drill, either .

No, I know you can't do that!

What happens in the fullness of time when your 500 gets to 999,999miles? (or kilometers)
Does it go to zero?
If so, what then?

We had a car back in the 70's that had done 95,000miles when we bought it, then it passed 100,000miles and went to zero. We sold it at 25,000miles.

Yes, digital stuff can't be "clocked" but the system must be able to cope with more than the available digits .......... or not?

Our (modern digital) Clio may pass the 100,000mile mark next year. She's done 97,000+ miles now, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Cheers,
Mick.

Mick F said:

If so, what then?

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Who knows?

Maybe Fiat will give a prize to anyone who manages to keep one on the road for that long.

I dread to think what it would cost to keep up a full franchised dealer mainenance history over that sort of mileage.

You can get a condition known as "Integer Overflow" where a counter exceeds its maximum storage value and the controlling software crashes.

Go here for an amusing story about how such a situation affects Boeing's 787 Dreamliner.

So ............. you get a prize for doing a million miles or kilometers in the Fiat 500 - or any modern car.

From what I've read on my copy of MES, it plainly says that you can increase the odometer reading, but not decrease it.
Fair enough perhaps.

As far as I can tell, there's no limit to how far you can move the odometer forwards. Hence my question.

Just say your 500 has done 50,000miles and the instrument cluster packs up so you buy another one from eBay. Just say that cluster has only done 25,000miles.
What's to stop you doing nothing to the odometer?
If you play the game properly, you'll move it to 50,000miles.

If you can move it forward 25,000miles, you can move it forward 50,000miles or even 100,000mies ....... or even 250,000miles and claim a prize?

What's the catch here?
Buy a new instrument cluster with few miles on the odometer and add loads of value to the car?

Seems strange to me that the odometer is ONLY in the instrument cluster. You should be able to plug a brand new one in and the odometer automatically resets to correct. Same as a secondhand one with an indeterminate reading should also flip to correct.

If you and I swapped our clusters over, what would happen to the readings?

Regards,
Mick.

I have one with only 720 miles. I swapped it out for a TFT one soon after purchasing the car.

Maggie said:

I have one with only 720 miles. I swapped it out for a TFT one soon after purchasing the car.

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Plenty of used ones advertised on eBay ranging from 12000 to 51000 miles.

Mick F said:

Buy a new instrument cluster with few miles on the odometer and add loads of value to the car?

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The mileage stored in the engine ECU* wouldn't match and this could be interrogated easily with either Fiat examiner or MES.

If you do get caught clocking a car, the penalties can be severe, and if done by someone in the trade, commonly include a significant prison sentence.

After four men who clocked about 6,500,000 miles off various cars were jailed for a total of 12 3/4 years, Cllr Barbara Dring, Chair of Birmingham council’s Licensing and Public Protection Committee, said: "This sentence makes it clear we do not tolerate criminal activity in our city. Car clocking is a serious criminal activity that can affect anyone who buys a used car, especially as mileage is a major selling point in the second-hand market."

In another case, a different trader was jailed for 5 1/2yrs for a similar offence.

*with thanks to Pathaleon for this correction

What about clocking it forwards?

Let's be obtuse here.
Let's say you "clock" your car to something ridiculous, like 500,000miles.

It make the odometer a pointless thing to record the total distance travelled since new.

Mick.

jrkitching said:

The mileage stored in the body computer wouldn't match and this could be interrogated easily with either Fiat examiner or MES.

If you do get caught clocking a car, the penalties can be severe, and if done by someone in the trade, commonly include a significant prison sentence.

After four men who clocked about 6,500,000 miles off various cars were jailed for a total of 12 3/4 years, Cllr Barbara Dring, Chair of Birmingham council’s Licensing and Public Protection Committee, said: "This sentence makes it clear we do not tolerate criminal activity in our city. Car clocking is a serious criminal activity that can affect anyone who buys a used car, especially as mileage is a major selling point in the second-hand market."

In another case, a different trader was jailed for 5 1/2yrs for a similar offence.

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From my experience when I fitted the new TFT instrument cluster the only other reference to the mileage you will find is actually in the engine ECU. The body computer does not store a reference of the mileage.

Unfortunately there is nothing stopping somebody putting in a cluster with lower miles and aligning it. However I'd like to think that people are better than that in the society we live in and expect for that not to be the case.

Pathaleon said:

From my experience when I fitted the new TFT instrument cluster the only other reference to the mileage you will find is actually in the engine ECU. The body computer does not store a reference of the mileage.

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Thanks - previous post amended.

In the UK, the displayed mileage is recorded for posterity on the VOSA MOT database and this should be checked before purchasing a secondhand car more than three years old.

So......... has anyone actually experienced the fault in having.??
I've looked at the ones on eBay, most have high mileage, some not specified, some for petrol models and most have wrong part number.
I'm presuming I need the right one.? Or can I fit any.??

Update..... fitted replacement dash cluster and fault has gone. Happy days.