Hi guys,

Just looking for a bit of advice on a problem I have had with my Fiat 500 (it's 2 years old).

So, I had a problem where the gear stick was broken so it was in the dealership for to be fixed and at the time they all carried out a service as it was due.

I got my report back for the service saying all was fine and the brake discs were less than 20% worn (they had all been replaced this time last year).

Picked the car up and on the drive home (not far at all from the garage) I started to noticed a thudding noise when I was slowing down.

Booked it back in to the garage and they said the front brake discs were totally warped and replaced both them and the brake pads costing around £240.

I just don't think this makes sense! How can the brakes be fine when they do the service it and then warped when I pick it up?

They said it can be caused by excessive heat or dirt from the road, but it had been sitting in the garage for a good 3 days and I noticed the noise almost straight away when I picked the car up.

Unfortunately I don't know much about cars to try and argue my case, but feel like I am being rather ripped off here.

Any advice would be mega appreciated.

P.S I don't brake heavily or sit with my foot on the brake.

Hi LilK,

Welcome to the forum by the way.

There are lots of technical experts on here so sure someone will be able to offer some advice in that area.

All I can say is that if your dealer serviced the car and they said the brake discs were only 20% worn, only for it to go back in shortly afterwards for the repair work to be done, then your story doesn't add up does it!

With regard to the 20% comment, did your dealer leave you with a job sheet outlining all the checks they have done (and with that point in writing on the job sheet)? If so, is it dated? All Fiat dealers are supposed to do this but not all of them do.

If that is the case then I would give the dealer a call and ask to speak to the service manager and get him or her to explain why they missed this when the car was serviced.

Also sounds a little concerning that your car is 2 years old and has already gone through two sets of brake pads. What sort of mileage do you do?

Well its fixed for now but in future shop around and perhaps get a second opinion assuming yours is a 1.2 the the discs and pads only cost about £40 the lot, add dealer costs then yes about right.
It's odd it was fine one moment and not the next mind they often get worse and worse over time , it is possible something was not put back proprely giving the impression of warped discs and the garage jumped to a conclusion than proper diagnosis?

Thanks so much for getting back to me.

I know, I found it odd that this is the second time the brake discs have needed replaced (It's done around 30 thousand miles which I guess is quite a lot?).
It was both the brakes and discs last time as well.
I had my last Fiat 500 for 3 years and never needed the discs replaced.

On the service report there is a section for brakes which is ticked to say they were ok. They also sent me a wee video in which the mechanic says "the front brakes are less than 20% worn". I still have a copy of this.

I did speak to the service manager. He says that the mechanic was correct to say the brakes were less than 20% worn as the brakes warping is not related to wear and tear and can happen at any moment. He insists that the discs were not warped when the service was carried out and it must have happened as I drove home, but I know the noise was there as soon as I drove away from the garage.

I was hoping someone could help me with the technical side of things to see if I have any basis for an argument.

They just e-mailed me asking me to fill out a survey and give them 10 out of 10 ha!

Aw so frustrating!

Thanks John.

Yes, I really should have shopped around. I just took it back to them as they had just serviced it and told me they needed fixed ASAP (and I needed the car back) so just told them to fix it. I wish I had got a second opinion though.

I'm not disputing the cost or the fact the brakes were needing replaced. I just want to know how it happened. They were fine when I took the car in, the service report confirmed this and then I picked the car up and the brakes are warped and needed replaced.

I feel like it's their fault and they have some how caused the problem.

Thanks for the info.

It does sound like you have been very unfortunate. I guess with hindsight you would have turned straight back into the garage as soon as you felt the problem as they couldn't really have used that excuse.

As I said above, hopefully someone else will be able to give you some more ammunition on the technical side.

Not sure I would be giving the dealer 10 out of 10 lol. I'd have a chat to friends and family and see if they can recommend a good local garage for future ref. Your car will be out of warranty by next year, so no pressing need to ever use the dealer again if you don't want to.

Thanks

Aw I know, I picked the car up after work (just as they were closing) so the garage was shut and I couldn't contact them that night.

It's a huge Fiat dealership as well that also sell many other makes of cars!

If I'm honest I feel it should have been covered under the warranty as the did say themselves it wasn't wear and tear.

Surely brakes shouldn't just warp like that?

Hoping someone technical will be able to help here and let me know if I have a case for taking it further.

A more cynical person would ask what the mileage was before it went in vs after?

That's my thinking exactly John! Sadly no way of proving anything as they can just claim it was a test drive.

At the very least I would have thought the warranty would cover it?

I know discs and pads are not usually covered as they are "wear and tear", but when I have report saying they are less than 20% worn then it surely can't be wear and tear.

This tale stinks. There's no way they should have sent a vehicle back out to the customer in a condition that was clearly worse than when it went in. Which begs the question, did the dealership take the vehicle out on the road for a road test once they'd 'fixed' the gear stick? If they had done, then even the most inept mechanic would have noticed when braking on a road test, that something wasn't right. I would be questioning the service manager.

Prior to leaving the vehicle with them, did you give the dealership express authority to carry out any work without your prior consent? On the very few occasions I do use a garage these days, I always insist that should they 'find' any work that needs doing, they should only ever advise me so I can make the decision whether or not to have any work done by the garage, which for service items like brake discs and pads, I wouldn't let them touch them anyway as I'm more than competent to do the work myself for a fraction of the cost you were charged.

For a dealership, the £240 you were charged, is unfortunately and rather sadly, about right. The simple fact is and has already been stated, the cost of a pair of brand new discs and pads, is about £40 and is 1.5 hour's work at most on a 500. I changed the pads on our old 1.2 POP in 30 minutes, that's both sides.

So, if they've told you that in their opinion, the warping of the discs wasn't wear and tear, why have they charged you for the work? I'd be complaining if I were you.

Thanks Frupi!

There are just so many things wrong with this.

I did authorise them to do the repair to the discs etc as I really needed the car back and they said it wasn't safe to drive. I really wish I hadn't now. Oh and I rather stupidly just assumed what ever they did would be under warranty as the problem appeared after work they had done to it.

They are saying that the brakes were not warped when they gave me it back and it must have happened on the drive home which is a load of rubbish! I somehow don't think they just warped as I was driving out their car park haha

I have just sent them a rather lengthy complaint in response to their "please give us 10 out of 10 on this survey" e-mail.

Like you say, they admitted it wasn't wear and tear so I really feel that it should have been covered under warranty.

Complain to Fiat Customer Services. Tell them you are not at all happy, make a noise.

The only way you are going to warp the discs on a car like a standard 500, is knocking it around the Nürburgring at brake neck speed and standing on the brakes in every corner, not taking a leisurely drive back home from the dealership.

I think I will complain to Fiat.

Thanks for your help that's exactly what I wanted to know.

I was pretty sure they wouldn't just randomly warp, it's not like I drive like a maniac.

It's very much a case of he said she said. The discs were warped and that is fact, when they became warped and who/what was responsible is going to be impossible to prove.

The best you can do is complain to fiat customer services but given their track record they will not do anything about it.

You will still need to get services and potentially any warantee work done by the dealer so unless you have another dealer in the area it's best not to **** them off

AndyRKett said:

It's very much a case of he said she said. The discs were warped and that is fact, when they became warped and who/what was responsible is going to be impossible to prove.

The best you can do is complain to fiat customer services but given their track record they will not do anything about it.

You will still need to get services and potentially any warantee work done by the dealer so unless you have another dealer in the area it's best not to **** them off

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To be fair, we don't know if it is fact at all. Have they offered LilK the discs back for independent inspection? No, and I doubt they'll even have them now, they'll have been chucked in the scrap metal bin. In effect, they could have told her any old crap they wanted and she'd just have to take their word for it. It's easy cash in their pocket to say the discs are warped without showing the customer the metal, and even then, you won't necessarily know that what they're showing you has actually come off your car. Yes, I'm cynical as hell, but this is why I do almost all of my own servicing because at least I can trust myself. You're absolutely right though, neither side are going to be able to prove one way or the other where, when, why and how it happened.

I clearly don't know where LilK lives, but I'd be looking for another dealership withing a 10 or 15 mile radius if she's lucky enough to have another nearby. Then again, I probably wouldn't bother using a dealership again, unless one was on a pre paid service plan, rather go independent and save some cash. As you are undoubtedly aware, you don't need to use a dealership for any general repairs under EU Block Exemption rules, so long as approved parts are used, warranty should be unaffected.

AndyRKett said:

It's very much a case of he said she said. The discs were warped and that is fact, when they became warped and who/what was responsible is going to be impossible to prove.

The best you can do is complain to fiat customer services but given their track record they will not do anything about it.

You will still need to get services and potentially any warantee work done by the dealer so unless you have another dealer in the area it's best not to **** them off

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I agree with you to a certain extent, but I personally wouldn't want to go near a dealership that did this to me ever again. But I know what you mean with regard to the car being in warranty

LilK - have a look at the dealer locator on the Fiat UK website:
http://www.fiat.co.uk/find-dealer

Try searching under "Service Centre" and see if there are any other options nearby. Not a 100% guarantee by any means, but sometimes the service-only dealers can be really good and much more customer focused.

Good luck with the complaint route - as Andy says, Fiat CS are a bit of a "mixed bag" but it's definitely worth pursuing as it means you will have a case reference number and it will be officially logged. If you don't get a response then a nice little post on Fiat UK's Facebook page often gets things moving in the right direction too!

Thanks Super Uwe, I'll have a look and certainly won't be going back to them. It's not the first problem I have had. I've just always went there as it's where I bought the car (on reflection probably not the wisest idea)

When I went in to get the gear stick fixed the car came back out with the start stop not working. boot handle broken and the check engine light on haha (all fixed under warranty so no big deal).

As for the not being able to prove where and when the brakes warped, I'm fully aware that I can't prove it.

My argument is that the brakes have just been checked and were in full working order. For them to just warp out of nowhere can't be right and is quite obviously not wear and tear. I think based on that it should be covered by warranty.

If you take a car in for work and you are told something is worn and needs replacing which you are unsure about, tell them you want then to keep the old parts for your inspection

My dad always used to make subtle marks on serviceable items like oil filters, air filters etc. so he knew things had been changed after a service, you might be surprised what wasn't.

frupi said:

To be fair, we don't know if it is fact at all. Have they offered LilK the discs back for independent inspection? No, and I doubt they'll even have them now, they'll have been chucked in the scrap metal bin. In effect, they could have told her any old crap they wanted and she'd just have to take their word for it.

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It's not like they just claimed she needed new brakes while doing the service. They had let the car go following the service before the problem was identified by the customer, they clearly had no problem with the brakes before this. The problem was fixed by changing the discs and the problem described was one of warped brake discs, I'm not sure where/why you would be so cynical given that history as to weather or not the discs were warped? The question is more one of why they were warped.

LilK said:

My argument is that the brakes have just been checked and were in full working order. For them to just warp out of nowhere can't be right and is quite obviously not wear and tear. I think based on that it should be covered by warranty.

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If you bought a brand new car and took it back an hour later with warped breaks it would be very unlikely that would replace them free of charge, there is no warranty in the world that would cover consumable parts like brakes especially against warping as this requires a large amount of heat to cause it meaning some one has to have mistreated the brakes (that doesn't mean you but clearly someone did)

It would be like picking your freshly repaired car up from the body shop and taking it back later complaining of a scratch, of course they will argue that you caused the scratch and the scratch wasn't there when you took the car, it's frustrating but unless you're prepared to take the dealership to small claims and have some method of proving they caused the problem then you will never get very far just kick off at fiat customer services and make a big fuss and you might get a little something back but as mentioned, Fiat CS is terrible so I Doubt it

andyrkett said:

it's not like they just claimed she needed new brakes while doing the service. They had let the car go following the service before the problem was identified by the customer, they clearly had no problem with the brakes before this. The problem was fixed by changing the discs and the problem described was one of warped brake discs, i'm not sure where/why you would be so cynical given that history as to weather or not the discs were warped? The question is more one of why they were warped.

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yes, i am cynical. Lilk took her vehicle into the dealership without any issues. She stated she left the garage:

picked the car up and on the drive home (not far at all from the garage) i started to noticed a thudding noise when i was slowing down.......

they said it can be caused by excessive heat or dirt from the road, but it had been sitting in the garage for a good 3 days and i noticed the noise almost straight away when i picked the car up.

back to my cynicsm, but always, always important to make a note of the odometer at drop off. They are supposed to put the mileage reading on the job sheet anyway.

so as far as i'm concerned, unless she's absolutely ragged it down a dual carriageway and put 1/4 tonne of pressure on the brakes, i can't see how the discs are going to have been warped in such a short period of time from leaving the garage. What has or has not happened at the dealership, only they can account for and they'll give their side of the story just as lilk has. I'm not insinuating that the garage has done anything wrong, but let us not forget, some mechanics have been caught out a stinker when they haven't realised there's an onboard dash cam operating when they've been test driving some poor sods car:



I rarely take my own car to any garage these days, but i have a roadhawk hd dashcam fitted that isn't readily noticeable because it's directly behind the rear view mirror and is permanently wired in. If i discovered some idiot mechanic had been driving my car in such a way, i'd be taking appropriate action.

Originally posted by AndyRKett
if you bought a brand new car and took it back an hour later with warped breaks it would be very unlikely that would replace them free of charge, there is no warranty in the world that would cover consumable parts like brakes especially against warping as this requires a large amount of heat to cause it meaning some one has to have mistreated the brakes (that doesn't mean you but clearly someone did)

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. There are all sorts of things listed in car warranties that state certain things are covered or not covered. I remember during the period of ownership of our previous two 500's, folks on here claimed there were different things you couldn't claim for, especially in year 3. For me, with 4 warranty claims between the two vehicles, there weren't any issues. If i bought a car that in the first week the brake discs warped or the the pads disintegrated, i'm pretty sure i'd get them replaced under warranty, but then this scenario is such a remote possibility, it's unlikely it ever happens anyway. I bought a brand new i10 last july. In november 2015, i took the car back to my supplying dealership to have four winter tyres that i supplied, fitted by the dealership. When they changed the tyres, on collecting the car, i noticed that the lacquer on all four diamond cut alloy wheels were damaged where the bang on wheel weights had been from the factory. I complained and all four wheels were replaced without fuss. So i think sometimes it's the way you complain.