Hiya, I am currently learning to drive in an automatic Ford fiesta. I am interested in getting a fiat 500 lounge on finance. I've heard different things about them. But mostly about the dualogic transmission. This might seem a silly question but is reversing much different? I know that the fiat won't creep forward like another automatic would when you lift your foot off the break. I hope you understand my question. Never really been on these sites before. Thank you x
General Automatic/Dualogic 500 reversing help?
- Thread starter Saammiiee
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General Automatic/Dualogic 500 reversing help?
Piccolo Nero e Bella
Established member
No, ours doesn't 'creep' forward or back, but when you take your foot off the brake, or the accelerator, on even a slight incline it will roll just like any manual in neutral. I find reversing into our drive (a slight uphill slope) requires a tad more attention than a conventional auto - as soon as you release the accelerator it will start to roll down again and you have to catch it with the brake or the handbrake.
ahmett
Prominent member
Personally, I would avoid a Fiat 500 in Automatic. The Dualogic box is a joke and much worse than other automatics.
Think of it as a manual car, not an auto, and you'll be fine. The Dualogic box is essentially an automated manual box.
Reversing is not much different. Just like how there's no creep forward when you're in D and lift off the brake, it won't creep backwards when you're in R and lift off the brake either. Like a manual car.
It teaches you to be aware and mindful of your surroundings, I think too many drivers take that for granted these days.
As for ahmett's comment that the Dualogic is a joke and is much worse than other automatics, discounting any reliability issues and talking from a strictly technical/mechanical viewpoint, I cannot agree with that, unless you're hell-bent on thinking of the Dualogic as a traditional slushbox auto.
It is a clutchless manual unit, and in that respect, I think it does a good job.
There is a slight learning curve if you've never driven a manual before, but that's about it.
Reversing is not much different. Just like how there's no creep forward when you're in D and lift off the brake, it won't creep backwards when you're in R and lift off the brake either. Like a manual car.
It teaches you to be aware and mindful of your surroundings, I think too many drivers take that for granted these days.
As for ahmett's comment that the Dualogic is a joke and is much worse than other automatics, discounting any reliability issues and talking from a strictly technical/mechanical viewpoint, I cannot agree with that, unless you're hell-bent on thinking of the Dualogic as a traditional slushbox auto.
It is a clutchless manual unit, and in that respect, I think it does a good job.
There is a slight learning curve if you've never driven a manual before, but that's about it.
ahmett
Prominent member
discounting any reliability issues? I would say that's a major factor! They are not as reliable as normal automatics by any sense of the word.
I would suggest once you have passed your test that you find a dealer that will allow you an extended test drive rather than the usual 10 minutes around their chosen route. If they don't seem willing, move on to another dealer. It's your money and they should jump through hoops for you.
They do drive differently to "normal" auto's but it only takes a few minutes to adjust to them. I found the shift / drive better when I changed gears by flipping the gear lever if that makes sense.
I wouldn't take too much notice of the flowery language in the previous posts, he's had a bad experience not supported by any actual statistical facts.
They do drive differently to "normal" auto's but it only takes a few minutes to adjust to them. I found the shift / drive better when I changed gears by flipping the gear lever if that makes sense.
I wouldn't take too much notice of the flowery language in the previous posts, he's had a bad experience not supported by any actual statistical facts.
They are very different to conventional automatics and as a new driver just starting out, you should be aware that it won't drive the same way as the car you are learning on. You need to adopt a specific technique when pulling away on a hill, which also depends on whether the car has hill holder fitted.
I would strongly recommend you have a long test drive in one before making your decision; explain your situation and driving experience to the dealership and I'm sure they'll be suitably gentle and helpful. You'll likely need to wait until you've passed your driving test, though.
If you're buying new and trading in before the warranty runs out, you'll likely be OK unless you're constantly ragging it.
Secondhand, or if you're planning to keep it a long time, it's a different story; I've seen too many posts from folks with issues - and if they do break, repairs are often costly. If you're not buying new, I'd look elsewhere; there's too much risk of inheriting someone else's problem car.
Sadly the statistics on this forum show that almost all posts from folks with gearbox problems are from dualogic owners; the system does not seem to be able to cope well as a manual 'box with spirited driving over extended mileages. I'd agree we need to keep this in perspective (Ahmett has had a particularly bad experience), but we can't just dismiss it as a one-off, either.
There have been several stories of folks who've had problems with recently purchased used dualogics, suggesting some cars with problems are patched up cheaply and then sold on, so secondhand buyers need to be particularly careful.
I would strongly recommend you have a long test drive in one before making your decision; explain your situation and driving experience to the dealership and I'm sure they'll be suitably gentle and helpful. You'll likely need to wait until you've passed your driving test, though.
If you're buying new and trading in before the warranty runs out, you'll likely be OK unless you're constantly ragging it.
Secondhand, or if you're planning to keep it a long time, it's a different story; I've seen too many posts from folks with issues - and if they do break, repairs are often costly. If you're not buying new, I'd look elsewhere; there's too much risk of inheriting someone else's problem car.
Sadly the statistics on this forum show that almost all posts from folks with gearbox problems are from dualogic owners; the system does not seem to be able to cope well as a manual 'box with spirited driving over extended mileages. I'd agree we need to keep this in perspective (Ahmett has had a particularly bad experience), but we can't just dismiss it as a one-off, either.
There have been several stories of folks who've had problems with recently purchased used dualogics, suggesting some cars with problems are patched up cheaply and then sold on, so secondhand buyers need to be particularly careful.
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Piccolo Nero e Bella
Established member
The DL does take some getting used to and, if I had my druthers, I'd prefer a 'conventional' automatic if I had to have an auto at all. The partner's unlikely to keep the Pop DL much longer than the warranty period, so that's OK. I hope to keep my manual Lounge a lot longer.
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I do agree with the above, however.
I know I'm stating the obvious but that's the nature of forums, I doubt anyone would buy any car if they used forums as their only research
The context of my comment was that the car was driven with a known issue which then developed into complete failure. Hardly worthy of a conclusive fact.
If the assertion was backed up with something like dual logic failures are 1.5 per 500,000 miles compared to say Audi auto box failures being 0.5 / 500,000 miles I'd accept it.
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A few years ago, BSM used these for a year as well as some Punto dualogics. Generally they behaved well, but when learners were practising manoeuvres the clutch would overheat, then you're stuck for a while until it cools.
In normal use, this should not be a problem, but if your normal parking manoeuvres, at home, work, etc, involve shunting a few times, then this may not be the system for you.
Whilst you are learning now, practice the manoeuvres so that you can do them well, with a nice smooth flow, so that time is minimised without compromising safety. This will help generally, and especially with any automated manual system.
As suggested above, a good long test drive is needed, to your home to practice reversing onto your drive, if applicable, or anywhere else representative of your normal use.
The Fiesta uses a 'conventional' autobox with a fluid drive, hence the term 'slushbox' sometimes used. These work nicely, but use a little more fuel. The Corsa also can be had with such a system, but can also be automated manual, so ensure you have the right one.
Good luck, with your choice, and your test. Your instructor may have experiences to share, so ask him/her too.
In normal use, this should not be a problem, but if your normal parking manoeuvres, at home, work, etc, involve shunting a few times, then this may not be the system for you.
Whilst you are learning now, practice the manoeuvres so that you can do them well, with a nice smooth flow, so that time is minimised without compromising safety. This will help generally, and especially with any automated manual system.
As suggested above, a good long test drive is needed, to your home to practice reversing onto your drive, if applicable, or anywhere else representative of your normal use.
The Fiesta uses a 'conventional' autobox with a fluid drive, hence the term 'slushbox' sometimes used. These work nicely, but use a little more fuel. The Corsa also can be had with such a system, but can also be automated manual, so ensure you have the right one.
Good luck, with your choice, and your test. Your instructor may have experiences to share, so ask him/her too.
ahmett
Prominent member
We must also understand that the Dualogic represents very old technology while most small cars are switching to dualclutch gearboxes that are lightyears ahead of the dualogic system. As far as i can see, no mainstream car manufacturer other than Fiat are even offering systems like the dualogic (electrohydraulic manual) in new cars today.
Afraid I must disagree: Having had a TA with Dualogic and my OH on her 3rd 500 with Dualogic, only one problem experienced and rapidly fixed under warranty.
I have had Jag's Merc's and Audi's with auto boxes and coped quite well with the dualogic.
Yes there is a difference, but once you are aware of these you adapt.:yum:
The Alfa with the TCT auto box is great. Not really had to use D mode very much, but when I do you really know about it.
I have been looking at what I will do next and as I am coming up to 70 next year I feel I need to splash out on something more opulent. This being the case I have a Jaguar XE on order which will be ready for the 1st March. I think then I will ease off and keep this one a lot longer.
Metalguru3
Member
Hi
ive had my 1.4 lounge DL for a couple of weeks now and to be fair it has taken me that time to get used to it
ive had a few automatics and other than there only being 2 pedals on the floor, there arent many similarities.
You do get used to it though and i find using it in auto Sport mode with a bit of manual gearchanging thrown in works just fine.
i think its a matter of personal choice as to whether you buy one or not - try not to be persuaded too much by a few horrific reviews, as its only human nature for some people to whinge rather than compliment - how many owners who are happy with their gearbox start a thread just to say that?
ill guess if you were in the market for a nice AMG Merc, you could find a few people who would slag that car off as well.
The answer is to buy a decent warranty to cover repairs then at least you know you only have to pay the insurance excess if it goes bang
im in the process of looking for a warranty at the moment,
then when i get that sorted, as far as im concerned it can blow up as many times as it likes.
Ive had loads of Fiats, and none of them have been perfect (except for my 2003 seicento sporting) yet i keep buying more, so they must be doing something right that many of us cant get enough of
ive had my 1.4 lounge DL for a couple of weeks now and to be fair it has taken me that time to get used to it
ive had a few automatics and other than there only being 2 pedals on the floor, there arent many similarities.
You do get used to it though and i find using it in auto Sport mode with a bit of manual gearchanging thrown in works just fine.
i think its a matter of personal choice as to whether you buy one or not - try not to be persuaded too much by a few horrific reviews, as its only human nature for some people to whinge rather than compliment - how many owners who are happy with their gearbox start a thread just to say that?
ill guess if you were in the market for a nice AMG Merc, you could find a few people who would slag that car off as well.
The answer is to buy a decent warranty to cover repairs then at least you know you only have to pay the insurance excess if it goes bang
im in the process of looking for a warranty at the moment,
then when i get that sorted, as far as im concerned it can blow up as many times as it likes.
Ive had loads of Fiats, and none of them have been perfect (except for my 2003 seicento sporting) yet i keep buying more, so they must be doing something right that many of us cant get enough of
This. It seems like most of the Dualogic problems on this forum are from second hand cars (though I did notice a couple of people who bought their cars brand new and had some troubles). I would never buy a 2nd hand Dualogic car even if it ostensibly seems to check out fine at first glance or on a quick test drive.
Beware unscrupulous sellers who reset error codes and flog their intermittently broken Dualogic cars
Some of the problems don't appear until you've been driving for a few hours or a few days.As for driving and reversing in a Dualogic car, you'll soon get used to it. Reverse parallel-parking up a hill will be a big challenge and requires precise pedal work to stop you rolling the wrong way. As others have said, think of the Dualogic as a clutch-less manual gearbox.
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