Hi, this is my first appearance on the board. I live down in far south-west of England and have owned a 500C S 1.2 in electronica blue since October 2014. I bought it brand new, only option being the leather interior. A lovely, lovely car!

This is my 4th Fiat, having previously owned a 127 1050CL, Panda 4x4 and a Cinquecento Sporting. Even thought I'm a big lad, I do like small Fiats.

The 500 has done just over 8,000 miles. Recently I had to have a tyre replaced as it had a slow puncture (nail in shoulder), so having noticed a vibration develop through steering, I got ATS to balance the wheels and swap back with front. No difference to the vibration though...

The vibration is quite pronounced from 30mph up and seems to hit a sweet spot at around 40 and around 70 mph. It's not shake your teeth out but it's very noticeable (to me) and doesn't seem to be surface related.

I booked it into local dealer to check. They could find nothing (checked balance again) but referred it to the main Fiat service centre. I had a call from them on same day to say mechanic had tested and that it was a 'characteristic' which I don't accept. I went back to the garage and went out with the mechanic who noticed that the dash, mirrors, etc, were vibrating too and he could feel it through passenger seat. They kept car and two days later had another call saying they are now checking alignment of subframe, engine mounts, exhaust, etc., which is good.

What bothers me though is that they claim to have tried two similar 500C models and they're both doing it too... I can't accept that as I know that the vibration was definitely not there 2,000 miles ago when I was away touring in the car!

Has anyone out there experienced any vibration through steering and did they get a fix or am I dreaming it that my little Fiat used to have lovely smooth steering?

Many thanks if anyone can offer any suggestions or had any similar experience.

Hi, and welcome,

question is.. as they've pretty much ruled out wheel balance, other options are:

engine imbalance - should be able to replicate this at the same engine RPM , but LOWER road speeds

TBH - my favourite would be a driveshaft imbalance,
see if the car has a "damper" on the longer driveshaft..,

have any of the "experts" you've been to actually had it on a "rolling road"..?,
then you'd be able to rule out the rear end as that would be stationary at given "40 MPH",


Charlie - Oxford

Firstly don't trust ATS they are either lazy, incompetent or the balancing machine is not calibrated correctly. Same comment applies to any main dealership.

I would still suspect a wheel imbalance but because it starts at such a low speed it maybe a damaged/bulged tyre.

If not it maybe a buckled wheel.

I would try to find a reputable independent tyre depot and get them to inspect and balance all the wheels.

And just because you feel it through the steering doesn't mean it has to be the front wheels.

Another thing to check is a defect called "cupping" Google it for a full description but it tends to affect independent rear suspension cars. If you run your hands around the tread it should be smooth. If the tread isn't you may have this, only solution is to change the tyres.

When I had a pair of tyres changed before I chopped in my old 1.2 lounge the fitter called me on to show me how even though the balance was perfect the back of the wheel was bent... (16" alloys). He reckoned it was down to potholes......

Hi and thanks for replies. Think I can more or less rule out wheel balance/buckle (unless I'm unlucky...) as wheels swapped back to front and balance now been checked by three different centres. Fully take your point about competence, especially when told its a 'characteristic'

Will have to check for cupping when I get the car back. Think I'm with varescrazy on driveshafts... Could be pothole damage of course but I'm pretty careful and can't remember any major bumps, unless other half has bumped it.

My thinking is that if they've actually tried two of same age and has same results that it is possibly a batch fault rather than 'they all do that sir' like the euro 6 emissions problem on 1.2... Incidentally, software has been updated for this Esc-equipped car so hopefully no more silly-looking hill starts!

Thanks again will let you know outcome, but if anyone does have same issue with 14/64-plate 500c please let me know!

Cheers

This MAY be irrelevant if you've swapped front to back, but you should maybe consider an out-of-round (but still balanced?) tyre...

bluejohn125 said:

This MAY be irrelevant if you've swapped front to back, but you should maybe consider an out-of-round (but still balanced?) tyre...

Click to expand...

Yes I've had that, it will balance but it's buckled. £360 for 1 wheel

Ended up buying complete set off ebay with virtually new tyres for £300.

If the tyre fitter is lazy he won't spot this. It's surely linked to your having a new tyre and swapping them around.

Hi bluejohn125 and RussH, thanks for replies. The vibration didn't change when wheels swapped front to back, would have expected some difference to the feel of the vibration if one of the wheels was buckled and on different 'axle', but there wasn't. It was just the same, almost certainly coming from front.

At the local Fiat garage (not the main agent where it currently is but same group), they checked wheels and were happy that they were all ok (as in not buckled or tyre out of shape). Local garage did try a set of Ka wheels on front just as an experiment and the vibration was worse. OK, that didn't eliminate the wheels on the back, but wouldn't think if it were a buckled wheel on rear, it would be worse if fronts were changed. Not ruling it out though...

If they get nowhere by end of Monday, I'll suggest they swap all the wheels with another 500 and see if that makes a difference. At least that will eliminate the possibility.

Cheers

When you had the tyre changed did you go for the same make / model or just any tyre?
have you got mixed tyres on the same axle?

Hi, no it's exactly same type - bit anal about tyres. Trouble is, vibration was there before the swaps...

Quick update from today (I'm very p***** off at moment), dealer has supposedly refitted exhaust, checked suspension, checked wheels,, rebalanced wheels etc, and claims it's better than two others they have in stock. Claims that it could be scuttle shake! B*******! I've had four convertibles before and do know what scuttle shake is like. It's a vibration that wasn't there 2000 miles ago, argh!

Got car back, they're going to follow up with Fiat tomorrow.

I'm not impressed at this minute. Will see what tomorrow brings...

Rant over - has anyone got a 500c with any vibration through steering? Am I being fussy? It just can't be right? I even managed to get video of thumb vibrating against steering wheel tonight!

Appreciate all your comments and suggestions out there!

pigglycat said:

Quick update from today (I'm very p***** off at moment), dealer has supposedly refitted exhaust, checked suspension, checked wheels,, rebalanced wheels etc, and claims it's better than two others they have in stock. Claims that it could be scuttle shake! B*******! I've had four convertibles before and do know what scuttle shake is like. It's a vibration that wasn't there 2000 miles ago, argh!

Got car back, they're going to follow up with Fiat tomorrow.

I'm not impressed at this minute. Will see what tomorrow brings...

Rant over - has anyone got a 500c with any vibration through steering? Am I being fussy? It just can't be right? I even managed to get video of thumb vibrating against steering wheel tonight!

Appreciate all your comments and suggestions out there!

Click to expand...

hi again,
IF it were mine.. I would get it up off it's front wheels, ( and remove them)
( on axle stands) + run up and down gear / revs,
ANY vibration will be apparent, and cannot be related to ANY wheel balance,
Charlie

varesecrazy said:

hi again,
IF it were mine.. I would get it up off it's front wheels, ( and remove them)
( on axle stands) + run up and down gear / revs,
ANY vibration will be apparent, and cannot be related to ANY wheel balance,
Charlie

Click to expand...

Hi Charlie, thanks, good idea. I might try it this evening, trouble is all it's going to do is confirm to me that there is a problem and not necessarily where - the drive home last night told me that the vibration isn't wheel/tyre related too, it's far too regular and is unaffected by road surface (so definitely not scuttle shake). Depending on next call from garage, I might take it into a local indie Fiat specialist and, without telling them what the problem is, ask them to drive it up the road with me. See what they say...

At the moment, I just want someone to confirm that there is a problem with the car as the implication from garage is that it's normal as the other two do it... It isn't and they could be faulty too!

Thanks again for suggestion, will keep posting outcome as I know it's annoying on forums when the OP doesn't tell what happened next!

Cheers

Incidentally re: scuttle shake:

Autotrader first drive Fiat 500C, 2009:

"Driving on a combination of roads – some smooth and fast, others badly pitted – there was little of the flex which afflicts some convertibles. Scuttle shake can normally be felt as a judder through the steering wheel, but there was no such problem here."

Another thing to look at is where the drive shafts locate into the diff. I had a MK2 Punto that did this. The dealer checked it out under warranty and thought it might be diff or gearbox, started stripping the drive shafts off to remove the gearbox and when the near side one was pulled out one of the little bearings was in 3 pieces.

Hi, well thanks to everyone who looked at and replied to this post. I disappeared off the radar as I have been trying without success to get Fiat to resolve this problem for me and I didn't want to compromise my chances of getting a settlement through posting on here. Fat lot of good that did me!

Having driven 3x 500Cs in various specs (Abarth, lounge and S), that there is a genuine vibration problem with the car that starts to make itself felt (at least to me) from about 6,000 miles. My car had done about 7-8k when I first noticed it and I thought it was wheel balance. Thinking it was specific to mine, I persuaded dealer to bring in a similar spec, same age (64-plate) car with same mileage and it was actually worse. I've tried a 26k 12-plate car and that was far worse too.

My argument with Fiat and FCA Automotive Services has been that the vibration isn't there when new and I proved that at the weekend when I was able to try a near new 600 mile 500C. No vibration. Double-checked with mine on same route and it did vibrate (as I knew it would).

I've had an independent report done by an IAEA engineer who believes it to be a design issue with the car in conversion from hatch to cabriolet. This carries no weight with Fiat or FCA AS who have rejected my rejection of the car as being unsatisfactory under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

I have now raised a case with the Financial Ombudsman and have so far contacted AutoExpress and BBC Watchdog.

Fiat's attitude is that the car is how they designed it and that it is just a 'characteristic' and not a manufacturing defect so they won't do anything about it. My attitude is that firstly that stinks and secondly that it is completely incomprehensible that a car manufacturer can claim to 'design in' a fault like this - especially if a 'characteristic' then it won't be present in low mileage cars for magazine road testers, test drives at dealers, etc...

From what I've experienced with my test sample of three varying spec cars, they all have the vibration. I only feel it through the steering as my bum is nearly always in the driver's seat, but it's present throughout the rest of the car - dash, door cards, through passenger seat, etc.

I have been patient beyond belief with Fiat Customer Services - it took from 10/8 to 9/11 to get an engineer to the dealer, despite dealer's best efforts - and Fiat offered last week to trade it in for CAP trade price and start again on a hatch with no real incentive apart from a small compensation payment! I have obviously rejected this as I would be several thousand pounds out of pocket if I were to take it as well as having a car I don't want. I offered to compromise by swapping with a hatch of equal RRP value when I bought mine (£3k more than equivalent hatch) but that came to nothing too.

If you have a 500C with 5k miles or more, would you mind concentrating a little more on the steering feel the next time you drive it. I can only describe the feeling as if all of the tyres are ever so slightly out of shape (they're not, have tried brand new set of wheels/tyres). It's present on all road surfaces from low speeds with a sweet spot (on mine) of about 40-45 mph. It never goes away and reaches a level where it sends my wife's arms to sleep and I get tingling in hand too from it.

To recap, it's been confirmed to me that it's not a manufacturing defect or wear and tear and it's 'as Fiat designed it,' so no point pursuing other things to try now, they've been through it fairly thoroughly.

I know there are much more important things going on in the world today and my not so good vibrations are really not that important in the scheme of things, but they're a real pain to me.

I do fear 1.2 ECUs all over again as watching back the Watchdog clip from 2014, Fiat's answer sounds very familiar.

If you can feel a vibration with your 500C, please please let me know. I'm going to be starting a Facebook group later to try and recruit other owners who may be feeling this problem too. I must stress that the hatch is not affected, have driven several of those recently and there would have been a fuss about it by now.

At the end of the day, it might just be a vibration now. But at 30k, 40k, 60k what will that have done to the drivetrain and suspension components on the car? Surely, it will cause extra wear and tear? The independent engineer seems to think it may do.

Thanks for your time in reading this. I'm really sorry to throw a downer on the 500C. Until this manifested itself and Fiat did such a good job of alienating a potential long-term customer, I was singing its praises as the best car I'd ever owned. I would have taken a good-spec hatch of equal value as a compromise (it can't be coincidence that all three 500Cs I've tried do it) but now I just want my money back.



Cheers

PS I'm not whining/whinging for no reason, it's always present and has really spoiled my enjoyment of the car - it's been sitting staring at me down the garden since early August, apart from assessment drives and visits to the dealer and isn't going to be used as a) I've rejected it and b) to my mind it's not nice to drive now.

I'm very sorry to hear of your woes. You have obviously tried all routes available to you and had the usual pig headed response from Fiat. As you are not driving the car now, would it not be best to sell it on and cut the losses? A car parked in front of your house is not only reminder of a soured relationship its also loosing money. Get rid and put the whole thing behind you. Good luck!

Hi, thanks for your support. And I agree completely, normally that would be what I would do if something just annoyed me about a car or I'd gone off it or even if there was some niggling oddity that the dealer/mfr wouldn't/couldn't sort. I'd just get rid.

But this time, without wishing to sound as pig-headed as Fiat, I can't let it go. I've discovered what seems to be a very real design fault that makes the car quite unpleasant to drive and really don't feel like I should be financially (or morally) penalised for their shortcomings.

It's the principle on this occasion and I don't feel that I (or anyone else with the issue) should get trampled on. I've been as fair as I possibly could be with them.

I'll keep posting updates here as things develop (or not!). A real shame as I've always loved Fiats even if there hasn't been room in my life for one all the time. I'm also gutted as I love the look of the new 124 Spider too...

Thanks again

500C Vibes Facebook group now live, please share

With thanks to my Facebook expert OH, we've launched a group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/Fiat500CFeeltheVibes/ to see whether other 500C owners are feeling the vibes!

Please feel free to post and share your experiences of 500C good and bad.

Thanks again

PS Part of me perversely hopes that mine and the others I've tried with the vibrations are isolated incidents, this all feels like the breakup of a relationship to me, it's horrible!

Re: 500C Vibes Facebook group now live, please share

Firstly, condolences. Your experience with both the car and Fiat's aftersales support clearly falls far short of your (quite reasonable) expectations.

Having read the whole thread carefully, I'm sorry to say I don't think going down the legal route will gain you anything except more frustration and fruitless expenditure. Whilst I've no doubt that the problems you've had with your car have ruined your experience, IMO it's nowhere near serious enough to give you a realistic hope of winning your case in Court. To be of any use in a rejection claim, your independent report must state absolutely and unambiguously that the car has a design fault, present at the time of original manufacture, which renders the car substantially unfit for purpose, or unsafe to drive. If it doesn't say that, don't expect it to carry much weight with a Court.

Did you buy the car outright? If you bought it on any kind of finance scheme linked to the car, chances are that you won't legally own it, in which case, you can't legally reject it anyway. Your only legal remedy in that case would be to sue the finance company for breach of contract, which might be even more difficult to prove.

I've first hand experience of having rejected faulty goods and suing the supplier in the County Court; it's not something to be taken lightly and I'd advise you to think very, very carefully before going down this route. Even if you win your case, the time, effort and stress involved will leave you feeling like a loser.

Mel's advice is sound; sometimes the best thing you can do is to write off your losses and move on.

At least the 500's popularity should get you a decent p/x price against another marque.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck with it.

Please keep posting; learning about your experiences helps us all.