Just reading the Haynes Manual.

It seems that the pollen filter in the diesel models is exactly the same as the petrol models - just physically looked at our 500TA and that is the same too.

Exactly the same instructions, exactly the same fittings etc and methods.

Why does the pollen filter need to be replaced at 12,000miles with a petrol car, but every 20,000miles with a diesel car?

Can a pollen filter in a petrol car last 20,000miles like in a diesel? Is 12,000miles overkill?

Regards,
Mick.

Again, the 20k miles thing is part of this ridiculous extended service interval regime which I personally have utter contempt for. I actually change the pollen filter on my diesel Saab every six months because quite honestly, it gets absoluely filthy. Thanfully changing the pollen filter on that car is a darn sight easier than on a 500. I swapped out the pollen filter on our old 1.2 POP at around 11k, well actually, the same time as I changed the plugs, and that too was filthy.

I guess though it can depend entirely on where you live. Both our cars are on the M1 just about 7 days a week, so clearly we'll have more exhaust pollutants than someone living next to the sea. Personally, I think it's just plain common sense to swap it out every 12k miles max or annually, whichever comes first.

Thanks Frupi.

I pulled out our 500TA filter and looked at it only yesterday. It was clean except for a tiny bit of twiggy/seedy dust. Very much like we have here in rural Cornwall.

I knocked out the dust, and it looks as clean as it would do brand new.

I have no idea when it was done last as the service records we have from ours isn't very clear to what was done. The car has done nearly 18,000miles now, and we bought her at 14,000miles just out of warranty and had just had her first MOT.

We have a Clio we have had from new. She's done 95,000miles now and i know for a fact that the pollen filter has only been changed TWICE ........... at 23,000miles and 84,000miles. I looked at it at the same time I looked at the 500TA and it they were as clean as each other.

My question is really why the diesel is recommended to be changed at 20,000miles but the petrol is at 12,000.

This means that when both versions will have done 60,000miles, the petrol would be changed five times, but the diesel only three times.

Thanks,
Mick.

All types of air filter should really be changed on condition, not mileage.

If you compare a used filter element with a new one, it should be obvious whether or not it needs changing.

With the pollen filter, it's down to (1) how often you turn on the fan and (2) how dirty the air is. If it becomes excessively contaminated, then the A/C evaporator matrix could get blocked by dust, and as it's a pig of a job to access it, it's worth inspecting the element from time to time and changing it when it looks past its best. It's a shame on Fiat that the filter is so inaccessible on RHD cars.

In rural Cornwall, it might be good for 50,000 miles - in central London, driving everywhere with the fan on, you could be lucky to get 5,000.

The same comments apply to the main engine air filter; once again, on the 500, it's not as easy to check as it could be. The Euro4 1.2 Panda air filter can be checked, and if need be changed, in about 30 seconds, without using tools.

Mick F said:

My question is really why the diesel is recommended to be changed at 20,000miles but the petrol is at 12,000.

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It's simply because that's how the other elements in the service schedule come together. The petrol needs to be serviced at 12K, while the diesel at 20K, the pollen filter is simply replaced at the same time. They don't expect diesel owners to come into the dealership just for a pollen filter, nor do they expect petrol owners to visit the dealership 8K after their service.

UFI said:

It's simply because that's how the other elements in the service schedule come together. The petrol needs to be serviced at 12K, while the diesel at 20K, the pollen filter is simply replaced at the same time. They don't expect diesel owners to come into the dealership just for a pollen filter, nor do they expect petrol owners to visit the dealership 8K after their service.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

Different items in the service schedule would ideally be done as and when required, but practical considerations mean they need to be aggregated into some sort of a service plan, likely predicated by the need to change the engine oil & filter. So everything else has to be some multiple of the oil change interval. DPF equipped diesels are different, because factors which may affect the oil quality have to be monitored and the oil changed on condition (which can't be predicated on time or mileage).

If you're servicing it yourself then, leaving aside warranty considerations, you can do what needs doing, when it needs doing, and save even more money .

Yes, UFI, that's what I expect is the answer. This maybe goes for other things too?

It's like doing a clutch. Whilst you're in there, you may as well replace the cover and the thrust bearing even though they may not need doing.

Yes, JR, I agree. Filters need checking, and if dirty either cleaned or changed. Filters, much like other things aren't mileage dependent, but it makes sense for the car owner who knows nothing about mechanicals.

I mentioned our Clio. I know that the pollen filter has only been changed twice because I've done it myself though the car has always been serviced professionally. They don't as a routine, change the pollen filter. You have to ask them to do it. Maybe Renault do it automatically, but our Clio has never been back to Renault since we first bought her other than the free service when she was new.

Maybe Fiat change all the filters if you went to them for a service. I have no intention of ours going back to Fiat.

Regards,
Mick.

It would take very little effort to design filters and their housings in such a way that they were easily user serviceable without tools.

And while we're at it, why can't car makers incorporate a see-through panel in filter housings so that the condition of the filter can be inspected without dismantling?

Ok, Stoopid here! What is a pollen filter, and what part of the engine does it filter air to. engine? cabin? what are the pro's cons of not changing it at all. Never had one , (that I know of) so not sure what they are for. if its engine, is it pre, main air filter?

Oh, I like being dim!

Fiat call it a pollen filter, but a more accurate name would be Cabin Filter.

The filter is on the air inlet to the heater matrix etc. It filters out fine dust particles and muck in the air, much like the way the air filter filters the dust and muck into the engine's induction system.

Considering how clean ours are down here, they aren't worth bothering with. If you drive in inner cities and/or dusty dry areas, no doubt they are a Godsend.

Pollen on the other hand, you may be allergic to, so it's good that it'll filter that too.

In the Fiat500, the filter is an absolute bugger to get at.
Take out the driver's mat if you have one.
See the plastic cover piece to the left of the pedals. It has an air vent on it.
See two Allen bolts, one of them recessed near the front.
Also, see a Torx headed screw.
Remove all three and pull away the cover.
Right at the front, there's a vertical cover maybe an inch wide and six or eight inches tall. Pull it off, it comes away easily.

Next bit is tricky:
Inside there, you'll be able to feel and maybe see a filter. You can only get to the very edge of it, but you can force it out of it's slot. It sort of folds and compresses as it comes out, then springs back into shape.
It's a sort of plasticy-papery concertina thingy six or eight inches square by three-quarters of an inch thick.

Replacing everything is just a reversal of the above.

Good luck!
Mick.

yostumpy said:

What is a pollen filter, and what part of the engine does it filter air to. engine? cabin? what are the pro's cons of not changing it at all.

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What Mick said.

It's possible that a heavily contaminated pollen filter could let enough muck through to block the aircon evaporator matrix, so it's worth changing even if you're not allergic to dust & pollen. Not changing it isn't going to harm your engine, though (unlike the main air filter).

And I've noticed the inside surface of the windscreen doesn't get as dirty as it does on cars without a pollen filter.

ah! Thanks for that chaps.

but, if its a filter,....and it gets patially blocked or contaminated,....it will just let less air in surely, as the filter part still wont / cant let any particles in, unless its damaged,.. So therefore shouldn't let anything thro. I know of no filters that get blocked, then let stuff thro, unless there is a bypass , in case of blockage

Yep, sounds right to me.

With an engine, if your inlet filter is "restrictive", it stops the engine working efficiently. MPG will suffer, power and acceleration will suffer too. The engine internals won't suffer from contamination per se.

Maybe the same thing happens with the "Cabin Filter". Air-flow will suffer and no doubt the aircon or automatic air-con will have difficulties, but it won't stop anything working ............ just not as efficiently.

I'll be leaving our "pollen filter" as it is for many many years yet. The Clio has done 95,000miles and I see no reason to change the THIRD filter for the foreseeable future.

Regards,
Mick.

PS
When I was running a tuned Mini back in the 90's, I had a KN filter on the SU carb.
http://www.knfilters.co.uk/search/product.aspx?prod=56-1400

I could take it off, clean it, then re-fit it. Great airflow and the engine breathed easily.

I wonder if you replace the whole filter assembly on a Fiat500 with a simple KN filter?

Mick.

Mick F said:

With an engine, if your inlet filter is "restrictive", it stops the engine working efficiently. MPG will suffer, power and acceleration will suffer too. The engine internals won't suffer from contamination per se.

Maybe the same thing happens with the "Cabin Filter". Air-flow will suffer and no doubt the aircon or automatic air-con will have difficulties, but it won't stop anything working ............ just not as efficiently.

Click to expand...

MPG won't suffer from a blocked air filter on an EFI car. Power will, but the ECU will compensate for the reduced air flow so MPG stays the same. Aftermarket high flow filters don't help MPG for the same reason (although many will claim so).

A blocked pollen filter actually might cause you a very, very slight MPG loss as you'll need to use more electrical power for the same air flow (particularly with ACC with it's finely adjustable fan speed). The vent fan works much more quietly/ efficiently with the filter removed.