Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[Flipflop12345]

Re: Gear box oil

Hi all sorry bout 1st post messed up a bit I'm trying to find out about a gear box fault on my daughters car 500 duel logic it's got a semi auto gear box that doesn't always go into gear but u can normally just move the lever and it goes in today however she said she got in the car and started it and it was saying automatic gearbox oil overheating that was after it had been parked for 3hrs after her drive to work thanks for any advice in advance from a novice to the site oh it's a 2010

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Gear box oil

The only real way forward with any dualogic gearbox fault is to get any fault codes read using a specialist code reader that's suitable for this purpose. If you have a windows laptop (an old one will suffice), then Multiecuscan can do this for the price of a cable or two and a €50 licence fee. If you let us know approximately where you're located, then someone near you who already has the diagnostics may be able to help.

What's the engine type and approximate mileage of your car?

 

[Flipflop12345]

The mileage is 54000 and it's a 1.2 thanks also I have a Range Rover code reader would that read her codes

 

[jrkitching]

The mileage is 54000

Quite a few of the reported failures have occured at that sort of mileage. How long has she owned the car?

I have a Range Rover code reader would that read her codes

I would not have thought it likely.

 

[Flipflop12345]

Quite a few of the reported failures have occured at that sort of mileage. How long has she owned the car?



I would not have thought it likely.

She's had the car a couple of years I thought Mabey a new filter and a gear oil Change may help

 

[jrkitching]

I thought Mabey a new filter and a gear oil Change may help

Unlikely, I'm sorry to say.

I'd suggest you read carefully through at least the first couple of pages of this thread.

Correct identification of the cause of the problem and replacement of any modules found to be faulty is generally the only hope of a lasting fix; sadly this course of action is unlikely to be cheap.

 

[Flipflop12345]

Unlikely, I'm sorry to say.

I'd suggest you read carefully through at least the first couple of pages of this thread.

Correct identification of the cause of the problem and replacement of any modules found to be faulty is generally the only hope of a lasting fix; sadly this course of action is unlikely to be cheap.

The car is in Scotland as my daughter is at uni there and I'm in Kent is there anyone on the forum with a code reader near to Falkirk or Stirling that could possibly read the codes for her or anyone with knowledge of a decent independent with fiat code reader cheers from a miles away dad to a daughter who hasn't got a clue around car mechanics

 

[Flipflop12345]

Nobody in Scotland with code reader help

 

[p6baseunit]

Nobody in Scotland with code reader help

Why would you be asking someone from a forum to go help your daughter??


http://www.jmmotorengineers.org.uk/about-us - is listed as an Alfa Specalist in the direct area on the Alfa forums

Or

http://www.mclennansgarage.com/

I tend to find that Alfa guys have the most experience with the Selespeed gearbox units - either garages do Fiats

 

[p6baseunit]

Hi guys!
Newbie here. I know it's been asked loads of times before but I'd really appreciate some help for my car in particular to show the mechanics...
Bought a 13 plate 500 Dualogic the weekend before last with only 6000 miles. It was fine Sunday-thursday but on Friday it cut out (more below) so I took it back to be sorted. Received it back yesterday and today it's done the same. When I've been braking it cuts into neutral, can't get it into gear with the gearstick and have to repeatedly turn it on and off again until it starts.
1st time- 60mph to a stop for a roundabout when it cuts out
2nd- 30mph to a stop for a roundabout
3rd- (travelling to mechanics) doesn't cut out but coolant warning light comes on as I pull up to roundabout, however actual gauge doesn't change level
4th- (day after I get it back) doesn't cut but coolant warning light and seatbelt light both come on
5th- coolant light comes on, car beeps as if it's about to hit neutral but I manage to get it into 1st manually before it cuts out.

Strangely, the most I've had on a 45 minute drive to the place I bought it is the coolant light, it cuts out on 10 minute drives to work. When you open the door you hear it whirring (technical language right here) for about 8 seconds which I've read is far too long. Mechanics couldn't find a fault so just did a gear selection calibration. We've checked oil and coolant levels which are fine.

Any ideas would be hugely appreciated, and please do ask if you need more info! Thank you

If you have bought this from a reputable car dealer, you should be able to reject it and find something else.
I would guess too much prep on the dealers side (steam cleaning and spraying the engine bay with water) hasn´t helped the electrics / ECU ... either that or this was the reason the previous person sold the car in the first place!

These cars are generally reliable

 

[ausabarth]

Thank you Jrkitching for your feedback.

I bought the car in late 2014 (it was first registered in March 2013)

While out of warranty, Australian consumer law stipulates that regardless of the warranty, a product must deliver on the service it was intended to. Failure of the actuator on a car that has done 33000km's seems to be a breach of this.

Fiat Australia have offered some goodwill but are still leaving me $4000 out of pocket. It is clear from the pure volume of posts that there is an inherent flaw with the dualogic actuator and I am surprised there has not been a mandatory recall to fix.

Hi All,

Just a quick update. I submitted a claim to the local fair trade tribunal against Fiat Australia for the costs to replace the actuator and was successful in receiving full compensation for the repair. I strongly recommend anyone who has a similar issue to follow through.

Fiat Australia seem to have a policy NOT to compromise or negotiate but the argument that the actuator failed unreasonably early was upheld and certainly worth the effort.

Happy to provide further details for anyone interested.

 

[jrkitching]

I submitted a claim to the local fair trade tribunal against Fiat Australia for the costs to replace the actuator and was successful in receiving full compensation for the repair.

Wow! and great news . I'm glad to hear your persistence has been justly rewarded.

In the UK, the claim would have to be made against the supplying dealer, but whatever technical arguments you used would be equally valid.

 

[alexGS]

Hi All,

Just a quick update. I submitted a claim to the local fair trade tribunal against Fiat Australia for the costs to replace the actuator and was successful in receiving full compensation for the repair. I strongly recommend anyone who has a similar issue to follow through.

Well done on getting the resolution, which you completely deserved. It is great news.

My only concern is that others might generalise and see their situation as being just the same, or ‘32 pages of reported faults’ as the same, when they are not. I think I said this before, but three things for others to keep in mind;

- 33,000km is an unreasonably short lifespan for the actuator (which is considered a non-serviceable component and has no scheduled maintenance). The clutch is a wear item; the actuator is not.

- There is no known design flaw requiring a recall, as some actuators have performed perfectly for a ‘reasonable’ expected life (160,000km/ten years) and obviously this would be impossible if all had the same flaw.

- The actuator used on the Abarth differs greatly in design to that used on the 1.2/1.4/TwinAir versions, due to a different gearbox being fitted. Different hydraulics, relocated sensors, ECU on the gearbox instead of inside the car, etc. The actuator is more similar to that used in Dualogic versions of the Grande Punto 1.3 diesel. In principle it is the same as the FIAT 500 Dualogic, but failure modes (ways in which it might fail) are different. To pick one example - the 500 Dualogic can leak oil into the gearchange position sensor (mounted on the front) where the Abarth MTA has the sensor mounted on top where it cannot fill with oil.

Of course, it would be useful to know the detail of what actually failed within the actuator (for a later date when actuator repairs may be practical), but that discussion would deserve its own thread in the Abarth 500 forum.

-Alex

 

[Flipflop12345]

Can anyone tell me what these codes are please on my daughters duel logic p1742 p060c p0720

 

[Techno]

Does the Fiat Abarth 500 have the Dualogic transmission fitted? and does the Abarth suffer with any automatic box issues?

 

[p6baseunit]

Does the Fiat Abarth 500 have the Dualogic transmission fitted? and does the Abarth suffer with any automatic box issues?

The Abarth uses a version called MTA, it’s a selespeed transmission yes.
A small number of cars have issues with these boxes, the same as any manufacturer. They are cheaper to fix than the VW DSG boxes used on the GTIs and judging by the issues that VW have had over the past 8 years, more reliable!

 

[marcbgreen]

I have a 2009 500 1.2 Lounge and have been having this immediate failure of the system when it is running - invariably at an extremely busy junction of course. It seems to happen when the car is running in 5th and is automatically changing down. the car beeps and then I come to a standstill. The RAC suggested that if I disconnect the battery and then reconnect it the car will start again - and it does! Not ideal in the rush hour traffic of course! I have read through a lot of the responses and I am a little concerned. The car is a 2009 plate but it has only done 29,000 miles. I would prefer not to have to spend a lot of money on fixing this - the car is worth around £3,500 if it is in good condition. I am also having problems as the Bluetooth doesn't work and the steering wheel controls are not particularly responsive, working only intermittently! The Bluetooth and the steering wheel issues are in reality, cosmetic issues but the car not driving is a danger to me and to my passengers. If this is a fatal issue then I need to get it fixed or get rid of the car - and get another 500 but perhaps go manual rather than auto. Any thoughts?

 

[irc]

If it was mine, and there is no sign of fluid leaks, I would do the following:
1. Ensure battery is in good order
2. Check earth connectors in rear lamps (search forum for info)
3. Check (or replace) brake pedal switch (search forum for info)
4. Check for the 500 well-known hatch wiring problem (search forum for info)

Other checks would be
a) that the pump motor is operating when expected (e.g fires up for {x} seconds when opening driver's door)
b) the pump makes constant noise while operating, not a wheezing, variable or grating sound.

{x} is usually between 6 and 15 seconds, depending on residual pressure.

If none of these make a difference, or there are leaks, I would start looking for a Dualogic expert locally.

Getting error codes read is useful, but only if the person interpreting them understands what to look for, and then only if read using the right kit - Fiat's own software or MultiECUScan are the only two I would rely on.
Other readers may confuse more than they help.
With MultiECUScan, you could also identify a failed accumulator or an overall pressure problem, or even a failing clutch plate (unlikely but possible at your mileage)

If you're lucky then it's just a corroded earth on your O/S rear light (free to fix) or a brake switch (cheap but fiddly)

 

[jrkitching]

Any thoughts?

I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties.

This thread rarely wanders far from the first page, and it's disappointing to see it back at the top once again. It's a shame most folks only find it after they've got a problem, and not before they've committed to a dualogic purchase.

The answers are all in this thread.

If it were mine, I'd see if it could be cheaply put into a condition whereby you could get a reasonable price for it as a trade in (your valuation isn't far off the mark) and leave your problems behind on some dealer's forecourt. At least any subsequent purchaser would have some redress when the problem inevitably resurfaces (and the cost of putting this right properly will likely be greater than anything you'd lose by trading in now).

A private sale is a matter for your own conscience.

Autocar had this one nailed right from the start - here's a review from the early days of the 500. The prices are amusingly out of date!

 

[FrancescaM]

Hey ...

I am also new desperately seeking any advise.
I am the owner of a 2013 fiat 500 0.9 twinair dualogic.

I was on a motor way doing 60PMG when my car transmission cut out.
I had to swerve into a verge and still not sure How I alive.

The only pre signs to this was my car screaming in 2nd gear going into 3rd in the auto mode. Sometimes it would take a good 10 seconds.

When I took my car into Desira (Fiat franchise) they told me I needed a new actuator or gearbox or both! The cost - £2400.00. a test also was needed £300.00 to confirm the actual problem? A car only done 40K full service historyand lightly used?? So thats when I contacted FIAT HQ so make a complaint.

They advised me to have this further diagnostic, and I had no choice. I called 3 other garages who declined the work and refused to look at this type of car.

after a few days Desira called to say that my car was now not showing any errors.
Even though they had said it was the actuator or gearbox or both?!

So now I ask .. what is wrong with it then!!! They said they would have to take a guess and not a fact and go with Clutch and flywheel but are not surer at all and the car requires a 7hr labour strip down .. The cost £760.00!!!!

This is where I currently am. FIAT UK not giving a flying Toss and I am very upset and angry.

I have now reached breaking point and after reading so many of the same problems I am thinking of building a case and going to the Motor Ombudsmen.

How does a Fiat specialist tech no know whats wrong with a car??
are they hiding something??
Is this 7hr labour strip down to get rid of me?

any answers are highly appreciated.

Regards
Upset Fiat owner
Frankie