Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[alexGS]

Thank you Jrkitching for your feedback.

I bought the car in late 2014 (it was first registered in March 2013)

While out of warranty, Australian consumer law stipulates that regardless of the warranty, a product must deliver on the service it was intended to. Failure of the actuator on a car that has done 33000km's seems to be a breach of this.

Fiat Australia have offered some goodwill but are still leaving me $4000 out of pocket. It is clear from the pure volume of posts that there is an inherent flaw with the dualogic actuator and I am surprised there has not been a mandatory recall to fix.

I absolutely agree that the actuator on your car has not lasted a reasonable life expected of the component. Leaving you $4000 out of pocket does not sound like a reasonable remedy to me. Supplying a replacement actuator free of charge and leaving you to pay for its fitting by a workshop of your choice would be reasonable for an out-of-warranty but low-kilometres failure. Perhaps do a search for examples of Ford’s Powershift gearbox sagas in Australia and other precedent cases.

I disagree that there is an “inherent flaw with the dualogic actuator”. Some of us have 120,000km+ without problems and if we all had the same flawed actuator, that wouldn’t be possible.

-Alex

 

[De joe]

Hello all ,
I’m new to this forum . However having problems with my 595 Abarth . The N on the display keeps flashing . It doesn’t change past 2nd gear . When driving in auto it sidles goes to second and then changes into neutral . HELP!

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Gearbox failure abarth 595

Hello all ,
I’m new to this forum . However having problems with my 595 Abarth . The N on the display keeps flashing . It doesn’t change past 2nd gear . When drivin in auto it sidles goes to second and then changes into neutral . HELP!

Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear about your problem. We have a whole thread dedicated to this specific issue, and I've copied your post across.

At this stage, you need to get any fault codes read. You can take it to a Fiat dealer or specialist, or you can buy a software tool (multiecuscan) and some leads and read them yourself. You'll likely need a Fiat-specific tool to do this; most generic code readers won't be much help here.

If you post a general indication of your location, there may be someone here with a copy of multiecuscan who can help.

 

[JaneS]

Hello Newbie here,

We have a 500L auto which has been at our local dealer for 2 weeks. The clutch needed replacement. We were told before they even opened the bonnet that it was most likely our fault because of the way we drive it. (I have previously owned a panda from 7 years with the same gearbox that never went wrong.). Then the garage told us that although they had replaced the clutch there was still a problem. A week later we have now been told a flywheel needs replacing too, and a 2nd clutch will also need to be fitted. I don't think we are going to have to pay for the 2nd clutch, but certainly the new flywheel!! The car is still in warranty, and has done 18,000 miles. The service manager told us with delight that he has known clutches go after 400 miles. They have apparently asked Fiat if they can do it under warranty and they have said no. So if we ever get the car back (its going to be another 2 weeks), how do we drive it without wearing out the clutch when we don't have a clutch peddle. We don't have a towbar by the way. I have also got a customer complaint no. from Fiat Customer services, I am waiting to hear from them.:

 

[jrkitching]

Hello Newbie here,

Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear about your problem, and disappointed to hear about the unhelpful and unprofessional attitude of your dealer.

Personally I'd be pressing Fiat Customer services to shoulder most, if not all, of the cost. Your chances of success will be greater if you are the first recorded keeper of the car, and it has been serviced at the recommended intervals by a franchised Fiat dealer or service centre.

Clutches & flywheels should not fail after 18,000 miles and I'd be surprised if it's down to the way you've been driving it.

 

[ahmett]

Hello Newbie here,

We have a 500L auto which has been at our local dealer for 2 weeks. The clutch needed replacement. We were told before they even opened the bonnet that it was most likely our fault because of the way we drive it. (I have previously owned a panda from 7 years with the same gearbox that never went wrong.). Then the garage told us that although they had replaced the clutch there was still a problem. A week later we have now been told a flywheel needs replacing too, and a 2nd clutch will also need to be fitted. I don't think we are going to have to pay for the 2nd clutch, but certainly the new flywheel!! The car is still in warranty, and has done 18,000 miles. The service manager told us with delight that he has known clutches go after 400 miles. They have apparently asked Fiat if they can do it under warranty and they have said no. So if we ever get the car back (its going to be another 2 weeks), how do we drive it without wearing out the clutch when we don't have a clutch peddle. We don't have a towbar by the way. I have also got a customer complaint no. from Fiat Customer services, I am waiting to hear from them.:

2 weeks? thats madness, i hope they sorted you out with a decent car in the meantime.

could it be that the 500L is too heavy for the dualogic system? I test drove that car and it was way too slow and underpowered! i feel really underpowered cars have higher clutch wear especially with the ghetto dualogic.

 

[paullap]

Hi, 2009 Punto , Can someone tell me if you fit one of these selespeed units from another car, or are they coded, If they are coded how do you re code them.


Paul

 

[Lummers]

We’ve had the Selespeed unit replaced and the gears are fine but the clutch release bearing has become noisy. Is it possible to replace the clutch assembly without messing about with the duologic stuff?

 

[SteveFiat500]

Hey guys, i have a bit of an update.
Been away for sometime and just got back a week ago. In the meantime we bought another car as the fiat was unreliable and didn't want to be left in the middle f the road somewhere.

When i got back last week i thought i'd take the car for a was as where it had been parked in the car park birds had sh!tted all over it. On my way back from the car wash, while approaching a set of lights the car was in 5th and as soon as it went to shift into 4th it dropped into natural and didn't want to get into gear. Fortunately it was an uphill and no car was behind me at that time so i managed to move it to the side. After a couple of attempts it would not go into gear at all but had no error message on the screen. While doing this i could hear a noise coming from the engine bay which sounded like a gear sifter trying to get into gear. Finally after 10 minutes of trying it popped into gear and i was on my way.

Took it to the Fiat deal in our area yesterday and after a few hours i got a call saying that the actuator needs to be replaced at a cost of $7000. I asked if they had checked the tutela fluid level and they said they dont have to do that as the error code P291478 has shown up in the scan. He said it was re calibrated i could pick it up when i can.

At this point i have to say that when i was driving it before it was calibrated the when changing gears you could feel the gearbox vibrate like when you have a clutch plate issue on a manual car, especial when starting from standstill.

After getting the car back it drove like a charm, gear shifting was much better and no vibration from the clutch at all. I'm just curious if that might of been the problem?? I'll try and drive it around and see if it causes any issues again. The fact that the dealer didn't bother checking the oil level is that kinda concerning? They gave me the impression that they just wanted me out of there and didn't want to help at all.

Either way i think its ridiculous that a car with 30.000klms will need so much money to be repaired and i'm actually looking at what our legal options are as fiat should of done a recall on these cars to fix the problem.

If anyone else here in Australia is having the same problem and would like to file a complaint together we would be more than happy to do so.

That's all for now.

 

[CudoPanda]

Hello

I've got a 2006 Panda with Dualogic and 53000 kilometers on the clock.
What should I do to the gearbox as a maintenance?

I'm planning on putting new oil and additive(it always goes into first when slowing down and synchro seems(sounds) to be on it's way out), and I'd also like to check actuator fluid.

Questions are: Which oil goes in the gearbox and how much?
How to check actuator fluid level?

Thanks

 

[p6baseunit]

Hello Newbie here,

We have a 500L auto which has been at our local dealer for 2 weeks. The clutch needed replacement. We were told before they even opened the bonnet that it was most likely our fault because of the way we drive it. (I have previously owned a panda from 7 years with the same gearbox that never went wrong.). Then the garage told us that although they had replaced the clutch there was still a problem. A week later we have now been told a flywheel needs replacing too, and a 2nd clutch will also need to be fitted. I don't think we are going to have to pay for the 2nd clutch, but certainly the new flywheel!! The car is still in warranty, and has done 18,000 miles. The service manager told us with delight that he has known clutches go after 400 miles. They have apparently asked Fiat if they can do it under warranty and they have said no. So if we ever get the car back (its going to be another 2 weeks), how do we drive it without wearing out the clutch when we don't have a clutch peddle. We don't have a towbar by the way. I have also got a customer complaint no. from Fiat Customer services, I am waiting to hear from them.:

Jane,
You state at the end of your story, that your car is an automatic and that how do you drive it in a way that the clutch doesn't wear, when you don't have a clutch pedal... I think this may have been missed by the others on here.

I would be expecting a replacement clutch and a flywheel paid for by Fiat if the car is still under the Fiat 2 year warrantee or I would be threatening them with court action.

Fiat cannot suggest that a very early clutch failure on an automatic car is somehow your fault, when you have no control over how the clutch works!

So if they car is within the 2 years.... I would expect them to replace the clutch and flywheel for nothing.... If you are into the 3rd year dealer warrantee, then I would be expecting a decent contribution from Fiat!

A clutch is a wear and tear service item, but in an automatic the car controls it, not you... So the fact that it has failed early is not your issue... and 18000miles in a very early clutch failure!!!!

 

[p6baseunit]

We’ve had the Selespeed unit replaced and the gears are fine but the clutch release bearing has become noisy. Is it possible to replace the clutch assembly without messing about with the duologic stuff?

Yes the Dualogic unit is a bolt on to the manual gearbox.

 

[p6baseunit]

Took it to the Fiat deal in our area yesterday and after a few hours i got a call saying that the actuator needs to be replaced at a cost of $7000. I asked if they had checked the tutela fluid level and they said they dont have to do that as the error code P291478 has shown up in the scan. He said it was re calibrated i could pick it up when i can.

At this point i have to say that when i was driving it before it was calibrated the when changing gears you could feel the gearbox vibrate like when you have a clutch plate issue on a manual car, especial when starting from standstill.

After getting the car back it drove like a charm, gear shifting was much better and no vibration from the clutch at all. I'm just curious if that might of been the problem?? I'll try and drive it around and see if it causes any issues again. The fact that the dealer didn't bother checking the oil level is that kinda concerning? They gave me the impression that they just wanted me out of there and didn't want to help at all.

Either way i think its ridiculous that a car with 30.000klms will need so much money to be repaired and i'm actually looking at what our legal options are as fiat should of done a recall on these cars to fix the problem. Technically it's a hydraulically operated unit and this has as much do with it's age, as well as the mileage. It's 5 years old and hasn't had much use.

If anyone else here in Australia is having the same problem and would like to file a complaint together we would be more than happy to do so.

Don't know about Australia, but here in Europe, you wouldn't have a hope in hell on a 5 year old car

That's all for now.

OK Steve, so see my reply to you on the previous page. If the Actuator isn't leaking then it shouldn't need oil and technically it shouldn't need replacing!
It is possible to source the complete gearbox module from the UK for a lot less money if you really need a replacement.

 

[alexGS]

Re: Gearbox failure abarth 595

Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear about your problem. We have a whole thread dedicated to this specific issue, and I've copied your post across.

At this stage, you need to get any fault codes read. You can take it to a Fiat dealer or specialist, or you can buy a software tool (multiecuscan) and some leads and read them yourself. You'll likely need a Fiat-specific tool to do this; most generic code readers won't be much help here.

If you post a general indication of your location, there may be someone here with a copy of multiecuscan who can help.

The Selespeed system in the Abarth is different to that in the 500.

In the case of my Abarth, that message appeared (and the lack of gearshifting) due to an engine fault (engine power being cut), which in turn was caused by a faulty brake light switch.

So it can be a simple fix but the advice to get the fault codes read is the best advice anyway. Just don’t assume that it has the same faults as the 500’s Dualogic might. It’s a completely different design.

-Alex

 

[JaneS]

Just to finish the sad story. We got the car back after 1 month at the dealer. I spent many hours ringing and waiting to be phoned by Fiat Customer Service in Milan. They were very polite, very sympathetic and I began to think that maybe there was some chance that we wouldn't have to pay the full repair costs. But surprise surprise on the day before we were due to pick the car back, they finally said no sorry we can't help!!! What a waste of time that was. So we got the car back last Thursday. We had to pay £1246. Still not really any explanation on how to drive the car and not burn out the clutch!!!. We sold the car the next day and bought a Nissan.
Very sad to see our Fiat 500L go as we loved it. But lost all faith in it and Fiat!

 

[alexGS]

Fiat cannot suggest that a very early clutch failure on an automatic car is somehow your fault, when you have no control over how the clutch works!

Ah - but you do
The main problem is crawling in traffic on hills - that’s what tends to finish off the clutches in Ferraris and Lamborghinis, and FIAT’s Dualogic is no different. To avoid riding the clutch, you have to hold the car on the brake (I use my left foot for this), and when you move off, you have to do it purposefully so that the clutch engages completely. This probably means waiting for a gap to open in front, rather than moving forward at walking pace which will slip the clutch almost continuously.

Still not really any explanation on how to drive the car and not burn out the clutch!!!. We sold the car the next day and bought a Nissan.
Very sad to see our Fiat 500L go as we loved it. But lost all faith in it and Fiat!

I agree that it is very disappointing that there was no explanation provided or any goodwill by FIAT. At least after all that time in the workshop, it sounds like you were able to sell remarkably quickly.

-Alex

 

[p6baseunit]

Ah - but you do
The main problem is crawling in traffic on hills - that’s what tends to finish off the clutches in Ferraris and Lamborghinis, and FIAT’s Dualogic is no different. To avoid riding the clutch, you have to hold the car on the brake (I use my left foot for this), and when you move off, you have to do it purposefully so that the clutch engages completely. This probably means waiting for a gap to open in front, rather than moving forward at walking pace which will slip the clutch almost continuously.



-Alex

The hill start option does this for you.
Yes I get that from a technical point of view.... but what about the legal point of view if you take them to court! You buy an automatic car and the gearbox clutch arrangement fails early and within warranty. How can they justify that in court, when its controlled by the car! I would be taking them to the small claims court!

 

[alexGS]

The hill start option does this for you.
Yes I get that from a technical point of view.... but what about the legal point of view if you take them to court! You buy an automatic car and the gearbox clutch arrangement fails early and within warranty. How can they justify that in court, when its controlled by the car! I would be taking them to the small claims court!

Lol - and that’s probably why the Dualogic is not available in the USA. Quite simply, it’s not an ‘automatic car’.

-Alex

 

[p6baseunit]

Lol - and that’s probably why the Dualogic is not available in the USA. Quite simply, it’s not an ‘automatic car’.

-Alex

I think Fiat were clever here, as all of the other manufactures have had issues with the robotic clutches and the US market where creep is expected on an automatic. Smart had major warranty issues as you can imagine, when they set the robotic gearbox ECU to mimic creep by slipping the clutch!
These gearboxes are designed for the EU market where emissions and fuel economy is everything. In the US, this isn’t an issue as naturally any 1.4 litre car is going to be economical LOL

 

[Laurenn279]

Hi guys!
Newbie here. I know it's been asked loads of times before but I'd really appreciate some help for my car in particular to show the mechanics...
Bought a 13 plate 500 Dualogic the weekend before last with only 6000 miles. It was fine Sunday-thursday but on Friday it cut out (more below) so I took it back to be sorted. Received it back yesterday and today it's done the same. When I've been braking it cuts into neutral, can't get it into gear with the gearstick and have to repeatedly turn it on and off again until it starts.
1st time- 60mph to a stop for a roundabout when it cuts out
2nd- 30mph to a stop for a roundabout
3rd- (travelling to mechanics) doesn't cut out but coolant warning light comes on as I pull up to roundabout, however actual gauge doesn't change level
4th- (day after I get it back) doesn't cut but coolant warning light and seatbelt light both come on
5th- coolant light comes on, car beeps as if it's about to hit neutral but I manage to get it into 1st manually before it cuts out.

Strangely, the most I've had on a 45 minute drive to the place I bought it is the coolant light, it cuts out on 10 minute drives to work. When you open the door you hear it whirring (technical language right here) for about 8 seconds which I've read is far too long. Mechanics couldn't find a fault so just did a gear selection calibration. We've checked oil and coolant levels which are fine.

Any ideas would be hugely appreciated, and please do ask if you need more info! Thank you