Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[Mineshp100]

No use exactly the same oil to avoid any problems. It's a very specific oil as its not only the specification, but the additive Fiat uses.

Filling the oil is a temporary solution if there is a leak as it will work normally until the oil goes low again and then start giving problems. I had done this several times over a period of a few years before the problem kept on returning and only disappeared completely when the whole unit was replaced.

If you do not want to pay 1200 GBP or so to replace the whole unit, fill the oil and sell it as i really doubt simply adding oil will be a permanent solution.

Cheers guys. So today I removed the shield around the transmission oil tank and noticed there was barely any oil left in there. So I slowly filled it up and it got to about 1/4 way, then all of a sudden it started leaking more. So I stopped pouring more oil and then it stopped leaking. So from that, there must be some sort of leak above that point in the tank. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to see where the leak it because of all the other parts connected to the tank, you just can't see it. It's where the tank shape changes and goes in, and all the other metal parts join. I don't see a way of actually finding the leak unless the tank is removed from its location, meaning removing a lot of parts.

So I'm going to see how long the quarter tank lasts, before I have to refill. Also forgot to mention, the car started and shifted gears!!! So I'm glad atleast we can get it moving.

Has anyone else observed the same issue where it fills quarter way before leaking heavily?

Thanks everyone on this thread btw - I really appreciate it!

 

[DavyP]

I had the same problem . The oil tank failed where it had been injected with the plastic for the injection moulding. A definite manufacturing fault ,but as the car was 6 years old before it was found I doubt that Fiat would have done anything...

 

[FIAT 500C AUT 2010 DK]

Hello everyone!

I am from Denmark and used to be for a short time happy-trouble-free owner of my little FIAT 500C. It is from 2010, made some 98k km, and I bought it used from dealer last year, perhaps that was my big mistake.

Cars are very expensive here in DK and automatic gear (duallogic) is even more pricy, but also hard to find (not popular) within Denmark.

I only drive automatic, therefore had to go for this small charming used car, that costed me approx 13k Euro as used...

I hope you can help me with any input and advice. Here is the status:

1. Car started beeping and having troubles shifting to reverse gear, without any extra messages. I pushed brake and tried again, then it shifted without problem

2. Last week I took it to regular yearly service at Bosch, filter, oil changed. Nothing wrong reported, and I also asked nothing special from them

3. Couple days ago I got message Start&Stop error with two lamp indicators showing Generic Failure and Start and Stop crossed out, Neutral gear and nothing can be changed to any gear in any mode. Gear unavailable message

4. Towed the car to FIAT dealer, they have never seen it before (of course). Diagnostic showed 3 error codes: P2914-78 (error with gear system, wrong regulation and adjustment), P060C-85 (error with transmission control, signal over the limit), P1742-1C (gear change sensor positioning). Dealer has offered to order gear change sensor something, connection net and "potentiometer", it will cost me 800 Euro, I have confirmed now and wait for delivery time estimation.

5. The last very strange thing that our neighbor the same day I had all these problems complained about oil leak, and I have asked dealer if any leaks, he said it can be motor oil leak from oil filter (sounds weird, can Bosch do such a f*** up?), or is it transmission oil or what?

Sorry for such a long post and thank you for any feedback. See files attached.

Will keep you posted.

 

[DavyP]

Sorry to hear of your problem. Having an oil leak could be from engine,(oil filter ,gasket somewhere) ; gearbox, final drive ,or, as you have the dreaded Dualogic ,could be the hydraulic fluid.
If you can find where the oil is coming from ,would be half way to solving the problem, If there's a lot it could be ruptured oil container or failure of an 'O' ring .
Best find out where the oil's coming from first ,if you can . I know the Dualogic works can be in awkward places. that's why they are never checked on services. There's some very good info on the Forum too.

 

[ahmett]

Hello everyone!

I am from Denmark and used to be for a short time happy-trouble-free owner of my little FIAT 500C. It is from 2010, made some 98k km, and I bought it used from dealer last year, perhaps that was my big mistake.

Cars are very expensive here in DK and automatic gear (duallogic) is even more pricy, but also hard to find (not popular) within Denmark.

I only drive automatic, therefore had to go for this small charming used car, that costed me approx 13k Euro as used...

I hope you can help me with any input and advice. Here is the status:

1. Car started beeping and having troubles shifting to reverse gear, without any extra messages. I pushed brake and tried again, then it shifted without problem

2. Last week I took it to regular yearly service at Bosch, filter, oil changed. Nothing wrong reported, and I also asked nothing special from them

3. Couple days ago I got message Start&Stop error with two lamp indicators showing Generic Failure and Start and Stop crossed out, Neutral gear and nothing can be changed to any gear in any mode. Gear unavailable message

4. Towed the car to FIAT dealer, they have never seen it before (of course). Diagnostic showed 3 error codes: P2914-78 (error with gear system, wrong regulation and adjustment), P060C-85 (error with transmission control, signal over the limit), P1742-1C (gear change sensor positioning). Dealer has offered to order gear change sensor something, connection net and "potentiometer", it will cost me 800 Euro, I have confirmed now and wait for delivery time estimation.

5. The last very strange thing that our neighbor the same day I had all these problems complained about oil leak, and I have asked dealer if any leaks, he said it can be motor oil leak from oil filter (sounds weird, can Bosch do such a f*** up?), or is it transmission oil or what?

Sorry for such a long post and thank you for any feedback. See files attached.

Will keep you posted.

to end your problems its best to replace the whole unit as i think they recommended in your attachment?

i did small repairs with my dualogic here and there but the problems kept on coming until i replaced the whole unit completely!

 

[p6baseunit]

to end your problems its best to replace the whole unit as i think they recommended in your attachment?

Just thought I would mention, Shop4Parts sell the whole gearbox control module now for £907 + shipping. They can send this anywhere.
I thought this was excellent value... So basically for second hand cars out of warranty, you could get the whole duologic control replaced at a Fiat specialist in the UK (with you supplying the part) for something in the region of £1300.

 

[p6baseunit]

Towed the car to FIAT dealer, they have never seen it before (of course).

Problem with this is that they then have no clue how to fix it..... You would have more luck at an Alfa specialist - they see these selespeed type gearboxes all the time!

When the time comes on my twinair, the basics will be checked and then the whole unit replaced if necessary.

Just seen the mileage on this car... 60Kmiles and 7 years old, that I would suspect is the general trouble free period of the average unit. Get the whole duologic unit replaced and you will most likely have another 98000kms and 7 years from the box. It might be worth them replacing the clutch and clutch fork release arm at the same time, if you can. The clutch folk bends over time and this can display itself as an inability to change gear, as the clutch can not be fully released.

 

[FIAT 500C AUT 2010 DK]

Thank you for all your replies and hints. I have already confirmed to FIAT dealer the repair of the suggested sensor and cables. They still think that oil is leaking from oil filter. Spare parts expected to come end of this week. Will keep you updated.

Changing the whole unit is still and always an option, but very hard to accept this high expense right now, will give it a try.

 

[cotswoldtony]

Thank you for all your replies and hints. I have already confirmed to FIAT dealer the repair of the suggested sensor and cables. They still think that oil is leaking from oil filter. Spare parts expected to come end of this week. Will keep you updated.

Changing the whole unit is still and always an option, but very hard to accept this high expense right now, will give it a try.

In my experience most auto techs do not understand mechatronic transmission systems even main agents hence changing complete units to resolve the problems.
The Fiat system is the same as a Ferrari 355 system first used by F1 racing teams in the 1980's.
One common fault is oil pressure which can drop due to warn brushes in the Denso electric pump which only cost a few pounds on ebay to replace.
In my experience most mechatronic problems are due to low oil pressure.

 

[p6baseunit]

One common fault is oil pressure which can drop due to warn brushes in the Denso electric pump which only cost a few pounds on ebay to replace.
In my experience most mechatronic problems are due to low oil pressure.

Hi Tony,
Any idea on which bushes can be used? Do you have any links?
Many thanks

 

[p6baseunit]

Hello everyone!

I am from Denmark and used to be for a short time happy-trouble-free owner of my little FIAT 500C. It is from 2010, made some 98k km, and I bought it used from dealer last year, perhaps that was my big mistake.

Cars are very expensive here in DK and automatic gear (duallogic) is even more pricy, but also hard to find (not popular) within Denmark.

Sorry for such a long post and thank you for any feedback. See files attached.

Will keep you posted.

How did you get on with this? Is it Fixed?

 

[FIAT 500C AUT 2010 DK]

Hello everyone,

The car was fixed and works ok until now. Thank you for all of your hints and support.

 

[p6baseunit]

Hello everyone,

The car was fixed and works ok until now.

Great news, did the garage tell you what was wrong?

 

[cotswoldtony]

Hi Tony,
Any idea on which bushes can be used? Do you have any links?
Many thanks

You need the denso pump number to order the correct brush set for your vehicle.
This small electric pump works hards to maintain the high hydraulic pressure to operate the clutch and gears.
The common fault with the pump is a blown fuse which is best to replace the complete pump and fit an additional earth strap to the unit.

 

[ertromp]

End 2016 we got problems with our 500 1.2 Dualogic (63.000km)

Problem was a leaking rubber ring

I got this fault codes in Multiecuscan (see thumbnail)

And I made a log file you can see it goes out of fifth gear into Neutral

It was due to a faulty rubber seal ring (I dont know the exact English translation)

Here some pictures I bought a dualogic and installed it together with my brother in law

Now it functions smoothly

 

[p6baseunit]

End 2016 we got problems with our 500 1.2 Dualogic (63.000km)

I bought a dualogic and installed it together with my brother in law

Now it functions smoothly

Did you replace the whole unit or just the actuator?

How much did it cost you and how long did it take you to fit it?

 

[ertromp]

We replaced the whole unit ourselves. Actuator and hydrolic unit.
It take 3 hours for removing and installing and checking with Multi ecuscan
The unit (new) price for me was €800,- icluding taxes

 

[p6baseunit]

Thanks for the reply/feedback - seems a straight forward cost effect fix that has bugged a number of people on here... As are as I am aware its a straight forward repair for the average DIY mechanic.

 

[alconn]

Bought my wife a fiat 500 automatic a 12 plate. Recently as we are driving along it beeps and tben goes into neutral! We had it in the local garage , but they couldn't find the problem, if a yone has any ideas would love to hear them. We live in Fife Scotland. Many Thanks.

 

[varesecrazy]

Re: Automatic

Bought my wife a fiat 500 automatic a 12 plate. Recently as we are driving along it beeps and tben goes into neutral! We had it in the local garage , but they couldn't find the problem, if a yone has any ideas would love to hear them. We live in Fife Scotland. Many Thanks.

hi, and welcome,

the FIAT term for the semi auto's is "Dualogic",

there are MANY threads covering this type of issue,
I'll try and link to a couple.

garage should have checked the level of the fluid tank, then scanned for fault codes..??

Charlie