Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[burrowsdeano]

Just a quick one on checking the Selespeed fluid level, it should only be checked with the system fully depressurised otherwise you end up with too much in there which can lead to oil leaking from areas it wouldn't normally reach which in turn can lead you up the garden path thinking you have a fluid leak. I would depressurise it and re-check but I find it's always best to have a diagnostic tool connected while doing that to make sure it's completely depressurised reading 0 bar.

 

[Mikeyuk66]

Thanks Burrowsdeano, as I could not find any info on this I topped up while pressurised, there is a green mark on the bottle which seems to be on all bottles from factory fill. I had to add about 90ml to lift the level to the top of the green mark. I could not see any other markings, access is very limited on the Chrysler. Where are the fill marks on the bottle?

 

[burrowsdeano]

You've got the correct marks, like you said the green mark is what they use in the factory to help them see the level. All you need to do to de-pressurise is disconnect the elec connection for the pump with is right at the front of the actuator next to the tank. It's a big 2 pin black connector, once you pulled that apart get in the car and with the engine not running but ignition on keep selecting first and second gear until you get the gearbox light flashing and the car telling you gearbox failure. Then check the level again, you will probably find its over filled. Also the tank is marked min and max right by that green mark

 

[burrowsdeano]

Once you've done all that and set the level just reconnect the pump and turn the ignition on. The pump will run for maybe 30 seconds and then start up and all warning lights will be gone

 

[Mikeyuk66]

Thanks burrowsdeano, that is great information. I will revisit at the weekend as I have probably slightly overfilled it. When I checked and topped up the car had been standing for some hours, I noted the level allowing for the car not being on a level surface and it would of been just below the minimum mark. I then opened the drivers door, the pump ran for 5 or so seconds and the level dropped a fair bit. I then added just 90ml to get it between the marks. So now I am worried that it was not actually low in which case the fun and games are set to continue. :-(

 

[Noetic Concordance]

Very interesting Mikeyuk66 - in all the years I had a Dualogic and had it serviced by a Fiat garage not once did the transmission get a mention! Even when a problem developed and I brought it in they did not want to go near it and only ever read error codes. It was an independent garage that had to do a proxy alignment as the local Fiat garage just kept sending the car back saying everything was fine.

 

[burrowsdeano]

It appears checking the level needs to be clarified, I will post the official documentation from fiat tomorrow when I can get to my lap top but it does clearly state it must be carried out with the system depressurised. I have just looked up the procedure just to be sure and that is the way fiat instruct all dealers to carry out level checks

 

[burrowsdeano]

Return to PIPE FROM HYDRAULIC SPEED SELECTION ACTUATOR UNIT TO FLUID RESERVOIR - R.R.
Detail Detail

- Place the car on a lift.


- Engage the gear control lever in "N" (neutral).

- Connect the Examiner or wiTECH Plus (Examiner Emulator) to carry out the hydraulic actuation circuit depressurising procedure.

- Disconnect the electric pump fuse F83 (30 A) during this operation.


Submit Op. 5530B10 BATTERY - R+R


Submit Op. 5530B52 BATTERY SUPPORT/DRIP TRAY - R.R


Submit Op. 7055B54 PROTECTION/GUARD UNDER ENGINE -R.R.


Submit Op. 2127C13 HEAT PROTECTION BULKHEAD ON GEARBOX HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT FLUID RESERVOIR WITH ELECTRO-HYDRAULIC SELECTION - R.R.




The hydraulic system fluid level should be checked with the oil at ambient temperature (engine cold).


1. Check that the level corresponds to the MAX reference on the reservoir.


- If the level is below the MAX. mark, add recommended fluid until the level is midway between the MIN. and MAX. marks.


Component


Type


Name


Classification


Quantity


Validity


Robotised gearbox hydraulic activation system


Oil


TUTELA CAR CS SPEED

Contractual

Technical

Reference

N. F005.F98


ATF DEXRON III

FIAT 9.55550-SAI


0.7 l

0.59 kg


1.2 8V

1.4 16V


The table shows the total quantity of fluid present in the electrohydraulic selection hydraulic system.

Submit Op. 2127C13 HEAT PROTECTION BULKHEAD ON GEARBOX HYDRAULIC CIRCUIT FLUID RESERVOIR WITH ELECTRO-HYDRAULIC SELECTION - R.R.


Submit Op. 7055B54 PROTECTION/GUARD UNDER ENGINE -R.R.


Submit Op. 5530B52 BATTERY SUPPORT/DRIP TRAY - R.R


Submit Op. 5530B10 BATTERY - R+R


Submit Op. 0010T48 HYDRAULIC SYSTEM FOR GEARBOX WITH HYDRAULIC SELECTION - BLEED AIR

 

[Mikeyuk66]

Ok, this is getting confusing. Attached is an image of the reservoir with the green mark just below the top of the lower section. When the system was pressurised I only had to add 90ml to get the level into the green zone.

Checking the level today after the vehicle has been standing 24 hours the level is almost at the top of the reservoir, see second image.

Are there two sets of marks? If I set the level to the lower marks when depressurised there would not be enough fluid to work correctly.

 

[bencey]

When the system is depressurised, We top it up until the level is on maximum. Carry out an end of line calibration and re check level. Never had any issues.

When you say you are depressurising the system. Are you doing this via any diagnsotic equipment?

When you go out to the car in the morning and unlock/open the door. Do you hear the buzzing noise?
If so, then thats the pump priming the fluid up to pressure ready to start.
Theyre programmed so when you open the door, the pump primes the systen to 45-50 bar. So by the time the driver is in the seat with the keys in the ignition, the system is fully up to pressure and ready to select gears.

 

[burrowsdeano]

The reason the level has gone up overnight is because the system depressurises over a few hours and the fluid returns to the reservoir. Like it says in the procedure from fiat, must be depressurised and the level between min and max right where the green paint mark is. Also there is only one min max level marking on the reservoir

 

[bencey]

The fluid in your photos looks quite nasty as well.
Selespeed oil is normally clear and quite watery.

If you're still having issues,
and if you feel competent enough.
I'd jack the car up,
Look around the back of the unit for a black plastic cover with magneti marelli written on it. it's held in with three torx 20 screws (if I remember correctly).
Remove those screws, And peer inside the unit. It should be nice and dry, no oil or dirt and definitely no water.

 

[Mikeyuk66]

And this is my point, if I drain it down to the correct level, I will be removing more fluid than I put in (90ml) after the fault occurred. The volume of space in the reservoir above the max mark is a lot more than 90ml. I'll give it a go but this suggests that the oil level is not the fault, although it has been faultless since the top up.

The car has been faultless for the 16000 miles I have driven it, struggling to accept the problem is being caused by an overfull reservoir (not touched since I purchased the car).

Cheers

 

[Mikeyuk66]

Another day...

We have two of these motors, so today I checked the level on the other one which has not moved in 4 days. The fluid was bang on the green mark.

So, firstly - apologies to burrowsdeano for suggesting the information previously given was incorrect.

Secondly - how can I remove some fluid from my reservoir (I actually want to drain it and put new fluid in), I can't get anything in the filler point (tried small flexible silicone tube), it is obstructed by something and I can't see a removable filter so guessing it is the design of the reservoir?

Any tips on how I can drain the reservoir without any diagnostics gear appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[jrkitching]

So, firstly - apologies to burrowsdeano for suggesting the information previously given was incorrect.

Thanks for the apology.

To avoid confusing other peeps, I've deleted the incorrect information as you requested.

 

[burrowsdeano]

Right to empty the reservoir you need to remove the heat shield from the front of the actuator. Then looking from underneath you will see the pump itself, there you will see a metal pipe gong into the bottom of it which has an 11mm brake pipe style union fitted to it. Put a tray underneath and then undo that union, not much will come out to start with but then open the drivers door and the pump should start running and will then empty the reservoir. If the pump doesn't run switch the ignition on then it will. Don't worry when the gearbox failure light comes on while doing this, it's quite normal and will clear once all the fluid is back in and everything is back together.

 

[burrowsdeano]

One thing I forgot to mention is you need the system depressurised first so you will need to disconnect the pump elec connection and then run through the gears with ignition on and engine off. That will return all the fluid to the reservoir and depressurise the system.

 

[burrowsdeano]

I have to say tho I don't think this will sort your issues. Can't do any harm but in all the time I've been dealing with these I've only ever seen one with a problem caused by deteriorated fluid and that was a Punto mjet with a different type of selespeed set up. Will likely be a mechanical/ solenoid issue. The s cam solenoid at the rear of the actuator gives loads of problems and not always with the same fault codes

 

[Mikeyuk66]

Will the pump stop running when the reservoir is empty?

 

[burrowsdeano]

It may cut out before it empties because it's probably on a timer but just close and open the door again or flick the ignition off and back on until it's empty