I agree - I've had a few Corsas as hire cars which I have to use for company travel, and the power is hopeless. I had a 1.2 Clio that was similarly bad, but Ford"s Ecotec 100 powered Fiesta was excellent and gave 54mpg on a long journey at motorway speeds. That's more than I would have got from my TA 500!

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

Renault Twingo ?

Click to expand...

Has renault even sold any? Can't say I have seen one on the road. And I live in London!

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

babyferrari said:

Has renault even sold any? Can't say I have seen one on the road. And I live in London!

Click to expand...

I've seen a couple on the road, however considering that it's been out a while now, not that many. From what I've read Renault spoiled it by making it quite dull to drive, a missed opportunity.

JimbbobW1977 said:

Why would you be test driving a 1.2 Corsa? The 1.4 90 was bad enough for performance and the 1.3 cdti 93ps S although a decent performer is so dreary and dull I don't know why people buy them. Would rather a 500 1.2!!!

Click to expand...

My Mum is looking for a replacement car and having driven Vauxhalls for the last 19 years is insisting on a Corsa. I'm just making sure she's getting a good one.

As a car, I don't think the Corsa is bad - decent space, reasonable equipment etc. It was just the 1.2 engine that really let it down. There aren't really bad cars anymore. Even cheapies like the Dacias are much better than the best stuff we were driving 20 or so years ago.

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Officina red said:

Renault Twingo ?

Click to expand...

Sounds good in theory (RWD, small turning circle) but then I saw one in an Aldi parking lot this afternoon. I know, looks are subjective, but ew, please Mr. Godzilla, step on it. Thank you!

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Mondaugen said:

Sounds good in theory (RWD, small turning circle) but then I saw one in an Aldi parking lot this afternoon. I know, looks are subjective, but ew, please Mr. Godzilla, step on it. Thank you!

Click to expand...

Before it was launched i thought it would be stiff competition for the 500, went to see one shortly after it arrived in the Renault dealers, and was disappointed,
thought the outside looked ok, the inside wasn't that good and the lack of boot space and the rear wheel drive In the winter would be a deal breaker for me.

Plus i haven't seen any on the road yet.

I was briefly considering Renault Twingo as an option. The looks and rear wheel drive appealed, but the lack of any power and the inside didn't (I was teenager in the 80' but even then I wouldn't had such a gaudy colour scheme! ) So fail from me I'd never buy a 500 now (I had one in 2008) as I think they are massively overpriced for what they are - I'd buy a Panda instead

Melanabb said:

I was briefly considering Renault Twingo as an option. The looks and rear wheel drive appealed, but the lack of any power and the inside didn't (I was teenager in the 80' but even then I wouldn't had such a gaudy colour scheme! ) So fail from me I'd never buy a 500 now (I had one in 2008) as I think they are massively overpriced for what they are - I'd buy a Panda instead

Click to expand...

yeah for the price of a new fiat 500 i would be buying a 2 year old bmw 1 series diesel. keep the change fiat! first and last fiat for me. and who are they joking, i am not paying 25,000 GBP for a new Fiat 500 X when, despite the premium price, i would still have to deal with Fiat's legendary customer service!

For your 2 year old BMW you could get a 8-year old Maserati. This discussion leads to some interesting results.
I agree that Fiat has a new semi-premium pricing strategy which I don't like at all. I want Fiat to build affordable cars.

Bodo said:

For your 2 year old BMW you could get a 8-year old Maserati. This discussion leads to some interesting results.
I agree that Fiat has a new semi-premium pricing strategy which I don't like at all. I want Fiat to build affordable cars.

Click to expand...

Please tell me where I can get a good 2007 Maserati for £13k-14k cause anything I can find at that age is £20k+

Also it's one thing to buy a car it's another to be able to afford to run it, there is quite a difference in running costs between a brand new fiat 500 or a 2 year old diesel BMW and a 15year old £13k Maserati

That is what I was saying (forgive the false Maserati price estimation).
You can't just say you'll get a 2 year old BMW instead of a brandnew Fiat 500. The asking price might be the same but you get a two year old car. You never know how it was driven before. You never know how well it was looked after. Maybe you buy a pile of crap with a lot of costs to come in the near future. Consider the pricing of repairs and services (higher with BMW). Consider insurance and taxes. Consider a shortend period of warranty.

There are a lot of things to take into equation when buying a car so in the end it is not justified to say a Fiat 500 equals a BMW 1series money-wise. That's all I'm saying.

When we talk ontopic: when Fiat introduced the 500 it was great and pretty much the only car in that super-mini segment. There was the Smart but this is a different car alltogether. At that time the 500 was super-competitive. Today other manufacturers (Renault, Citroen, Toyota et cetera) have all brought their own super-minis which (naturally) brings a lot more competition to the segment, which makes it harder for Fiat to sell their car. I'm really curious how the sales of the 500 will develop in the future. I predict hard times coming. The 500 overhaul needs to be refreshing and new without giving up the central ideals of the 500. Also: the price needs to be reasonable.

edit: AndyRKett: It's funny that you answered here, since several minutes ago I watched a howto video on youtube on how to change the lightbulb on my Mk2b while I was wondering if that puntohowto-guy is on the Fiatforum. Thanks for making these good instructional videos.

The main issue with fiat when compared to BMW is the after sale service between the two couldn't be further apart, while BMW can't do enough fiat fiat dealerships barely care you exist once they have your money.

You can make all sorts of arguments about brand new versus 2nd hand cars but to be honest even a brand new car can be a real dog, and fiat make many more of these dogs than BMW do, BMW make mile crunchers which is why it's not uncommon to see 3 year old cars with 100,000miles + on the clock

Essentially it's all relative and I can see what you're saying and I must admit I'm disappointed about the prospect of a cheap Maserati....

I've not been making videos for a while now and though I have a few filmed I struggle to find the time to do them but wil hopefully do some more in the future

It's all hit and miss really. I had two great Fiat dealers that I used when I had my Grande, both helpful and good workmanship. Fiat CIAO help line is another thing though, although I did one get them to pay half towards a failed alternator out of warranty once, they are poor. The car itself was poorly designed and engineered, but the 500 seems a lot better in this respect and more reliable. A new 500 with a decent dealer is not likely to present with to many problems.

I have never had any experience of BMW customer service or owning of one, however I have read that they may not be the mile munchers they used to be anymore especially the older chain driven 2.0d and 3.0d.

My Parents have had a 500 TwinAir Lounge from new, for the last 3 years & 32,000 miles. It's been a damn good car. A couple of minor bits replaced recently before the warranty expired (anti-roll bar bushes and washer pump), but other than that and a random flat battery at a year old, which never occurred again, it's been fine. It's fun to drive, reasonably economical (46-50mpg pretty consistently), still looks good & (on the Lounge at least) has a decent level of equipment.

Other cars have tried and failed (so far) to replicate the 500s sales success - the Renault Twingo and Seat Mii/Skoda Citigo get decent reviews, but I've seen 2 new Twingo's on the road, and no more than 10 each of the Seat & Skoda - I've probably seen a hundred 14 plate or newer 500s in the same time frame, so the 500 obviously does something well for many buyers.

What lets it down, and what has meant the Parents are not getting another Fiat, are the constant price increases and the poor customer service. They need a 5dr car, so another 500 was out of the question, but they could've still got a Panda, 500L or 500X. Trouble is, even a Panda 4x4 is as much to buy as a bigger Nissan Juke, and if you look at the Juke's closer rival, the 500X, you're looking at about £2000 more to get the equivalent model Fiat.

If you spend that premium, you expect solid backup if something goes wrong, but the way the family's been treated by Fiat HQ over problems with my Sister's Alfa MiTo is very much like Fiat just can't be bothered. It's 'unfortunate' that problems occur, but that's what the warranty is for, and people should be grateful for that. I'm afraid with the prices they charge, Fiat Group can't expect people to settle for this nonchalant attitude. As such, the Parents are buying a Nissan Juke. Not my cup of tea to look at, at all, but it was refined, with a strong engine, a dealership that looked like it'd actually had a bit of money spent on it, and things like 3 years servicing for £199 - one service on the 500 was £370!

Whether Nissan GB are any better than Fiat UK remains to be seen, but when you're saving over £2000 on list price versus the equivalent Fiat, it's a gamble worth taking. We know the Fiat will be at least as good a car as the Nissan, but chances are the backup will be average to appalling, so why spend a premium for it?

That's why I didn't bother with a Fiat or Alfa when I replaced the Grande. Didn't want the hassle of unreliability again and poor service to go with it.

I love the look of the new 500X but don't think I could put myself through the Fiat ownership experience again.

After owning a few second hand Fiats and more recently a brand new Fiat and Alfa, the family have concluded that they make ok sense second hand, but the company just don't seem interested enough in customers to warrant buying brand new from them.

The Parents will be taking delivery of the Nissan in the next few weeks, I doubt my Sister will ever buy an Alfa/Fiat again and I'll more than likely only get a second hand one.

As we said to Alfa Customer Services, this level of service would be poor if you'd spent £100 in Sainsburys, so it just can't be justified when you've spent over £40k on 3 cars from Fiat/Alfa, like we have since 2012.

Too right JTD_Liam.

Fiat's after-sales and customer service is in my opinion non-existent. I have been a Fiat customer for six years and we are on number 4 now with my wife's 500. I don't have any feeling whatsoever that (a) Fiat even knows this and (b) they are even bothered about my repeat custom. Would love to be proven wrong on both counts but the evidence stacks up to the contrary.

Having said all of that, it doesn't seem to matter how incompetent they are when it comes to the 500! It just keeps on selling.

I'd like to point out two things: first the margins on "premium"-cars are much higher, thus these automakers are able to cut you some slack when it comes to service. Second not all dealers are bad in general. Our main Fiat-dealer is okay-ish but definately not worse than our local VW/Skoda/Audi dealer.

I'm not defending Fiat here. The customer service is indeed not good, but other automakers have their fair share of problems too.

Super Uwe said:

Having said all of that, it doesn't seem to matter how incompetent they are when it comes to the 500! It just keeps on selling.

Click to expand...

There will however come a time when it's just too old and lacking behind the other that the sales drop off, then they will need something equally as good to keep sales up, Mini update their cars every few years to keep it fresh without moving to far from their original design because that's what people want, the latest mini is a really nice car which in terms of equipment makes the 500 look like a 80s Datsun

Fiat however managed great success with the punto II for 12 years and ford had a similar run with the old KA which could mean that the 500 in its current form could carry on till 2020 and still be popular.

What fiat failed to do with the punto was realise its success and got bored of the punto as a product the replacement didn't sell nearly as well and they stopped advertising it.

In the future the replacement 500 will need to be something that captures what people like about the current 500 and not a complete redesign to "make it better" without a thought to what the buying public really want