babyferrari said:

Aleck
I was going to suggest a problem wit the turbo - which it definitely sounds like - but this should be easily noticeable by a change in rate of acceleration over 3,000 revs )or whatever the point at which the turbo kicks in). You definitely have a problem and my guess is that it is more than a service issue. Test drive another and speak to the dealt you bought it from.
Good luck

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It's the turbo, just plugged in a code reader into the OBD port just to have a look and it came up with P0638, P0555, P0236.... Does anyone have any Info on these error codes? And if it's something I can fix or isn't a big expense? I'm getting fairly livid at this point so may even consider sending it back, however it is meant to be a Christmas present so I really don't want to have to do this....

Thank you all for your help, and there is a noticeable lack of power above 3k revs or so.... Should have been obvious really!

Regards

Aleck.

44sunsets said:

That's not a very steep gradient, you shouldn't have to resort to 1st gear to make it up the hill. Definitely something wrong

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It is just off a set of traffic lights, so it's from a standing start ! and as you go up the hill there are traffic lights on a railway bridge, so not much chance of picking up speed ! Follow the road up on the link...

P0236 Turbo Boost Sensor
P0555 Brake Booster Press Sensor
P0638 Throttle Actuator Ctrl Range

Sounds like you might have the wastegate issue TrevC mentioned.

Does anyone have any experience with this fault? Is it a whole new turbo ?

I'm kind of glad there's a fault and it's not just vastly underpowered like I originally thought!

Thank you

Aleck

Look on the bright side - get the turbo fixed and believe me it will be a different car and you will have some fun. No wonder it felt sluggish. An 875cc normally aspirated car is going to have difficulty pulling the skin off a rice pudding.
Surely you have to go back to the seller and insist on them fixing it. Did they really sell it like that?????
Believe me it is worth sticking with it. You will see why when it is fixed!

Aleck002 said:

Does anyone have any experience with this fault? Is it a whole new turbo ?

I'm kind of glad there's a fault and it's not just vastly underpowered like I originally thought!

Thank you

Aleck

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Fiat recalled a lot of the early cars and fitted a different turbo.

AFAIK it's sold and replaced as a complete assembly and if done outside warranty, it won't be cheap.

In your shoes, I'd be working out what comeback you have against the seller. However you get this fixed, you certainly need to ensure that any new turbo fitted is of the modified type.

Aleck
As you only bought it a few days ago your first call has to be to the vendor. Also it must be within warranty so one way or the other it shouldn't cot you anything. I believe that if a car is sold with a fault it is the sellers problem not the buyers unless it was explicitly agreed as a term of the sale. I know life us never quite as simple as it should be but seems like you have a strong case. Good luck

babyferrari said:

I believe that if a car is sold with a fault it is the sellers problem not the buyers unless it was explicitly agreed as a term of the sale.

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It all depends on whether the car was sold privately or by a trader.

In a private sale, you would have no comeback against the seller unless you could prove either that it was unroadworthy at the time it was sold, or that they had seriously misrepresented the car.

In a trade sale, you have the protection of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 so the car must be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. In the case we're discussing, I'd say the fault is sufficiently serious to give you a valid claim against the seller for the cost of the repair.
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act/

There are many variables and without knowing the facts it is difficult to say.

It was a private sale however was described that it drives like new? Also my test drive was around the town where she drives reasonably well. Probably should of been able to tell it was essentially turbo less.... Regardless I'm going to speak to him and try and resolve this... If I have no ground to stand on then it'll be an expensive phone call to fiat? Or could I do it myself what does it involve?

Thanks

Aleck.

Aleck
Don't give up yet. Sounds misdescribed to me! Where was it advertised and how did you pay?

Aleck002 said:

It was a private sale however was described that it drives like new? Also my test drive was around the town where she drives reasonably well. Probably should of been able to tell it was essentially turbo less.... Regardless I'm going to speak to him and try and resolve this... If I have no ground to stand on then it'll be an expensive phone call to fiat? Or could I do it myself what does it involve?

Thanks

Aleck.

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2012 car, I would get on to fiat customer services as well a 2012 car shouldn't be suffering a turbo failure, especially if the car has only covered 5k miles, is this not covered under the 3 year waranty?, but as it was a private sale I would argue that the seller has the ultimate responsibility and be pushing for the car to be returned or at least the cost of a new turbo back.

Out of interest did you do an HPI check on the car, to make sure there was no outstanding finance?

Aleck002 said:

It was a private sale however was described that it drives like new? Also my test drive was around the town where she drives reasonably well. Probably should of been able to tell it was essentially turbo less.... Regardless I'm going to speak to him and try and resolve this... If I have no ground to stand on then it'll be an expensive phone call to fiat? Or could I do it myself what does it involve?

Thanks

Aleck.

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Do you have a copy of the advertisement?

When you buy a car from a private seller, you have the following rights:

• the seller must have the right to sell the car
• the car must match its description
• the car must be roadworthy unless stated otherwise.

That's it. Any burden of proof will rest with the buyer.

The turbo could have failed on the drive home, and in that case you would have no comeback even if the car had been described as being in perfect condition.

You could try taking it back to the seller and asking for a refund, but realistically I doubt that has happened in the history of mankind.

Are you absolutely certain it was a private sale, and not a trader disguising themselves as a private seller to protect themselves from any comeback?

Aleck002 said:

If I have no ground to stand on then it'll be an expensive phone call to fiat?

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Given that there has been a recall on this issue and your car has only covered 5000 miles, Fiat may be prepared to help - it is certainly worth the price of a phone call and probably your best chance of getting it fixed at reasonable cost.

Aleck002 said:

Or could I do it myself what does it involve?

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Last time I looked on ePer, a replacement turbo was around £1600.

babyferrari said:

Aleck
Don't give up yet. Sounds misdescribed to me! Where was it advertised and how did you pay?

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Private sale. 'Buyer Beware'. No chance of any comeback against seller. The seller could be an old fart who has never driven above 30MPH, or a deceitful sod trying to offload a problem.
Purchaser should pursue some dialogue with Fiat. Probably come to nothing, but worth a try.
Again, just my tuppence worth.

babyferrari said:

There are many variables and without knowing the facts it is difficult to say.

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This. We're assuming there's something wrong with the car when it may be the OP's expectations that are off........

Isn't there some of the third year warranty left? I know you have to pay to transfer it, but if you do so you may be covered. My son did this some years ago when he bought a Punto privately. Naturally, nothing then went wrong....

I'm surprised this didn't flag the "check engine" light. Hopefully not a sign of previous owner dishonesty.

That being said, the person who offloaded a Lexus quickly onto a friend of mine would be kicking themselves. My friend took it to the Lexus dealer as the heater wasn't warming up in reasonable time. Lexus diagnosed it needed a new engine (apparently a design flaw on this particular model, something to do with a cylinder head problem).

Lexus are fitting a brand new engine (and, from photos I've seen, that looks suspiciously like a new long block and gearbox (presumably incl clutch and DMF)) at their expense. Not bad for an 08 plate car.

The moral of the story is, if the seller offloaded it knowingly with the fault (which you'll almost certainly never prove in a court of law), don't assume that they contacted the manufacturer for warranty or goodwill support.

Squadrone Rosso said:

This. We're assuming there's something wrong with the car when it may be the OP's expectations that are off........

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I think the OP has established beyond doubt there is a turbo problem!

Aleck
I maintain don't give up. Yes caveat emptor and all that but there are circumstances where it doesn't quite end there. If you really are facing a big bill try everything first. It may even be worth taking some proper legal advice. I feel your pain Nd I really hope you get this sorted. No one needs this **** especially at Christmas.

Thanks for the support! It's nice to be amongst like minded fellows who genuinely give a damn!

In terms of a check engine light, after attaching my code tester I reactivated the stored codes which were the aforementioned and now I have the check engine light back on!

I feel slightly guilty considering the time of the year but I will tackle the seller first and consult with fiat afterward!

Maintaining high spirits I am looking forward to having this fixed and seeing how it drives differently!

Thanks again

Aleck.