Technical Fiat 500 Twinair 0.9

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Technical Fiat 500 Twinair 0.9

Lack of acceleration really should not be a problem. I agree that test driving another is a good idea. However bear in mind that a twinair below the revs at which the turbo is spinning is just an 875cc engine. It is the turbo that adds the power that gives the performance. Keep the revs up and don't get bogged down trying to accelerate from low revs with no turbo. But any which way you should be able to get way above 60-70mph!!!
 
I'm now convinced there must be a problem with te car, just drove to my parents house down the M40 and while I did see above 70 on the speedo any hill I encountered required me to put it in third just to maintain a steady 60!

My parents live on a hill and I had to suffer most of the hill in first gear as second just couldn't handle it, luckily they live half way up and there is a set of traffic lights just before. But pulling away from those lights was a struggle in itself!

I've been gradually growing toward the idea that maybe this is the nature of the beast but today I'm beginning to doubt this again! I've had a look at test driving another twinair in the week.

Also I tried switching it from Eco to normal and it did suddenly pick up revs so this isn't the issue, maybe a turbo fault?

Thanks again!

Aleck
 
I would be getting it serviced...... That low mileage at that age? Has the oil ever been changed?

It has a service stamp maybe 200 miles ago? Presumably this would of included an oil change but I may just do a full service regardless so I know it's been done for sure! But would this really cause it such a loss in power?

Thanks

Aleck
 
Eco mode reduces torque and makes the steering lighter.

The effects of the Eco mode button are most noticeable when you're pulling away from standstill. The TwinAir will be noticeably more sluggish in that instance.

Some people expect to be able to climb decent hills in 4th or 5th gear which isn't really possible unless you've had a high speed run-up. My local hood is reasonably hilly and I usually have to shift down to 3rd gear in order to maintain reasonable speeds (50 km/h or so) while going up the incline.

My parents live on a hill and I had to suffer most of the hill in first gear as second just couldn't handle it, luckily they live half way up and there is a set of traffic lights just before. But pulling away from those lights was a struggle in itself!

What's the gradient of the hill?
Something like this, for example?
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steep_Hill"]Steep Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@<title>Steep Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Steep Hill[/ame]


It's possible your car may have a problem, hard to say unless you can compare it to another TwinAir.
 
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It has a service stamp maybe 200 miles ago? Presumably this would of included an oil change but I may just do a full service regardless so I know it's been done for sure! But would this really cause it such a loss in power?

Thanks

Aleck
do a 0-60 test already and tell us your time! you can easily do one without breaking the law = ) Thats how i 'measure if my car is going or not'. Anything under 12 seconds is just fine.
 
It has a service stamp maybe 200 miles ago? Presumably this would of included an oil change but I may just do a full service regardless so I know it's been done for sure! But would this really cause it such a loss in power?

Thanks

Aleck

Stamps mean nothing, is there a receipt that shows that work has actually been done and if so what work?
 
It has a service stamp maybe 200 miles ago? Presumably this would of included an oil change but I may just do a full service regardless so I know it's been done for sure! But would this really cause it such a loss in power?

Thanks

Aleck

Would I be right in thinking that the twinair needs a software "oil reset" performing when the oil is changed as the engine "learns" the state of the oil as it uses the oil to control the valves?

Is it feasible that an engine filled with fresh oil but using parameters for the old oil would experience a drop in performance (though at 5k that seems unlikely).

Did they use the correct oil at the service?
 
Stamps mean nothing, is there a receipt that shows that work has actually been done and if so what work?

:yeahthat:

And come to think of it, a receipt for work done only shown that a receipt has been written out.

I once overheard two guys in the trade discussing a car someone had just P/X'd with a factory-fresh blank service book:

"Has it got a service history", said the first

"It could have", said the second.

Buyer beware.
 
The Twinair doesn't have an oil degradation sensor.

The correct oil is critical for the operation of the multi / Twin unit.

Not any 5/40 will do.

I didn't say it had an oil degradation sensor- merely that it might take into account changes to the oil parameters as the oil ages.

First pointed out by bgunn in HERE:

Worth bearing in mind that technically you're meant to run an 'Oil Change' procedure through Examiner/witech or MultiECUScan after doing this to clear the adaptions in the ECU that have been made in the uni-air unit as the old oil degraded.
 
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In fact, this is hacking me off now, with the pedantry that popped up on a previous (multijet?) thread where someone kicked off about the engines having an oil degradation sensor based on something about a mini- even then the conclusion "minis have an oil degradation sensor" is demonstrably falliable.

The 500 engines do not measure oil condition directly- in the case of a multijet they merely measure parameters that might affect the oil (number of regens, failed regens etc.) and use an algorithm to flash up a condition warning. It might be something like "when 10 regens or 5 failed regens have been done, flash up "change oil"" (it's almost certainly more complicated than that, but it gets the idea across.

When the multijet has an oil change the COUNTER is reset (so the ecu allows another 10 regens or whatever before popping up the "change oil" message). Nothing to do with measuring the state of the oil directly.

I'm sure we've seen people have an oil change on their multijets without this counter being reset get a few miles down the road and then get a "change oil" message- if this mythical oil sensor existed on the 500 this wouldn't happen as the sensor would go "oh, fresh oil" without any need for a reset and hence the reset would not exist.

In the same way, we can imagine a similar thing happening in the twinair, where the valves are moved by the oil. Assume as the oil ages it gets thinner [note, I don't know whether it does or not- petrol dilution might make it thinner and in any case the parameters could work both ways], so [again, to very first order approximations] the uniair system has to pump more oil through to the valves to get the same rate of valve opening (how you would measure it I don't know, but it illustrates the point). The uniair CU stores this "pump more oil" as a value that might increase as the oil ages.

Then, when the oil is changed without the value being reset it uses the same "pump more oil" value with thicker oil, perhaps causing issues.

In "in before the pedants" mode, I don't even pretend to understand the details of how the uniair system works, this was just an illustration as to how the engine could monitor oil condition indirectly, without an oil condition sensor.

Again, if the twinair had this mythical oil degradation sensor [which I never mentioned] monitoring the oil condition directly, the oil state would never need resetting (so examiner/multiecuscan wouldn't have an oil change procedure).

If I'm honest, I'm getting increasingly sick of seeing this sort of thing happening on here.
 
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Thank again, for all the replies.


in terms of the aforementioned hill https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1stpia3mcCgScnSFg5AefaCg!2e0 forgive me for the unfortunate naming of the road.


Not the steepest of hills I have encountered? I will check the 0-60 after work and feed that back! Also see about carrying out a service on her just so I know its all spot on from my ownership!


I am really fighting for this to work out as personally although not for me I do love this little car and buzzing around town is such fun! But I need to know if its down on powered because of an issue or whether its just the nature of the car!


So I am booking a test drive with my local fiat dealership this should give me my answer, and if there is a problem ill have to troubleshoot from there, but I just cant work out what it could be!


Thank you all for your responses! I know this would be the place to find answers!


Regards


Aleck.
 
Aleck, something has just occurred to me. When my 2011 TA lounge had an oil/filter change in February 2012, the dealer implemented a "Service Campaign" which involved replacing the turbo. Apparently there was the possibility of a linkage on the turbo detaching (to the wastegate, I think) and this would cause a loss of power. Your car is probably outside this batch, but it may be worth checking with the dealer when you visit. From the sound of it, you have got an issue - when cruising at 70 there should be plenty in hand, especially with eco off.
 
I have a 2013 0.9 twinair, with 12000 on the clock and I am more than happy with it. As previously mentioned, it improves with age, but the eco button does slow you down. I am in Abingdon, so if you would like me to come and compare hill climbs, I am happy to do so. ( just pm me )
Knowing that hill, it's not possible to get any sort of run up from the bottom, so perhaps not a good example ?
 
Aleck
I was going to suggest a problem wit the turbo - which it definitely sounds like - but this should be easily noticeable by a change in rate of acceleration over 3,000 revs )or whatever the point at which the turbo kicks in). You definitely have a problem and my guess is that it is more than a service issue. Test drive another and speak to the dealt you bought it from.
Good luck
 
Who did the last service? If it wasn't a Fiat dealer or specialist, I'd suspect the oil. Even if it was, I'd still suspect the oil. Assuming of course the car really does have a fault, which it's starting to sound like it does.
 
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