Hi,

I I have an 11 plate Twinair, which has been a great little car until this week.

On Wednesday, stop/start failed to restart the engine when I was in a queue at a roundabout. Turned the car off and on, it restarted fine, but the stop/start and check engine lights were on. My other half said it sounded like it was just a glitch - the car drove fine afterwards, and when I went to check it a couple of hours after I got to work, the warning lights were off. OH said since the lights were off now, and the error code was apparently quite a generic one, he didn't think it was worth taking to the garage.

This morning, I turned off stop/start before I left. On the way to work, I noticed a slight burning smell, but only when the car was stopped at roundabouts and junctions - the smell disappeared as soon as the car started moving again. 15 mins into the journey, the battery light came on. I was on the motorway and only 5 mins from work, so I kept going. After I came off the motorway, I noticed the dashboard lights were dimmer. Got to work, parked the car a bit squint, went to straighten up and the power steering wasn't working. The power steering light wasn't on - only warning light on was the battery.

I restarted the car 10 mins later - no warning lights, and the power steering now works.

I'm hoping someone can give me a vague idea of whether this is likely to be just the battery - there is a garage around the corner that can supply and fit one, as well as several other garages 5-10 mins away. Or is it likely to be something worse? Last thing I need now is a huge repair bill.

I'd appreciate any advice anyone can offer.

Twinair11 said:

Hi

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Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear you're having problems.

All the symptoms you've described could be explained by the battery, and 3yrs seems to be about the point when many folks with S/S equipped 500's first notice battery related issues - with the exception of the slight burning smell.

That may just be a red herring, which you're noticing because you're extra sensitive right now to anything unusual; it could be a stray drop of oil on a hot manifold or even the fumes from the ancient taxi you'd just pulled up behind. It could (but less likely) also be a sign of something more serious; let's hope not.

Personally I'd replace the battery and take it from there. If you go to an independent garage (recommended and likely cheaper than taking it to Fiat), make sure they fit the right battery - S/S cars need an uprated one.

The battery itself should be about £100 if bought from a keenly priced source; there's very little labour involved in fitting.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Thank you very much - unfortunately I don't think I'm wrong about the burning smell It's definitely there and disappears as soon as the car starts moving. It's unpleasant and very noticeable.

I don't know enough about cars to know if it could be somehow related to the battery problem.

There is a good place around the corner that does tyres, wheels and batteries - I'm going to call them just now and cross my fingers.

Thanks for the help

Edit: the car was serviced 4 or 5 months ago with no issues. I didn't have the stereo on, just headlights, daytime running lights, and I had to put the wipers on/off a few times. Nothing plugged into the 12v socket.

I started the engine and got someone else to have a sniff as well - didn't take long for the nasty acrid smell to build up. Their best guess - it's the alternator burning out.

I'm going to call the dealer to find out how much it will cost to get the car in. OH says I should try and limp it there, and call Green Flag if the car cuts out on the way. It's only about 16 miles away. A bit scared of the car conking out on the way...

Twinair11 said:

I started the engine and got someone else to have a sniff as well - didn't take long for the nasty acrid smell to build up. Their best guess - it's the alternator burning out.

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That would be an unusual cause - I don't recall anyone else here having an alternator problem with a 500.

Personally I'd start by looking for a bad electrical connection somewhere - start by checking the main battery connections, the earthing point, and look for charred or burnt wiring - that would explain all your symptoms, including the acrid smell. That certainly is a more commonly reported issue with 500's.

If you do see any burnt wiring, don't touch it with your bare hands. Automobile wiring harnesses commonly contain fluoroelastomers which, if seriously overheated, produce hydro fluoric acid - this can cause severe burns which in the worst case, can require amputation.

(interesting how the forum software edits 'hyduoric'). Get some on your skin and you most certainly won't be .

jrkitching said:

That would be an unusual cause - I don't recall anyone else here having an alternator problem with a 500.

Personally I'd start by looking for a bad electrical connection somewhere - start by checking the main battery connections, the earthing point, and look for charred or burnt wiring - that would explain all your symptoms, including the acrid smell. That certainly is a more commonly reported issue with 500's.

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Thank you. Service manager at the Fiat garage says it's not safe to drive. Green Flag are going to take it there for me.

From the sound of things, I'm probably wrong about the cause. To be honest my main concern is not having a giant repair bill right before Xmas. I'm going it's something quick and easy to fix, but have no clue how likely that is.

Thanks again.

Ouch- potential severe burns and possible amputation? I think I'm better off leaving well alone! ☺

Twinair11 said:

Service manager at the Fiat garage says it's not safe to drive.

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Good advice.

Are you still inside the third year warranty? I'm guessing not, this late into 2014 with a 2011 car.

Hope it's nothing serious and something that can be cheaply fixed.

Sadly the warranty has run out

I'll just keep fingers & toes crossed that it's something simple & cheap to repair. And be grateful that I made it to work this morning before the power steering stopped working. For such a small car, when the power steering goes, the steering is very heavy Or maybe I'm just a bit too weak

OH reminded me that about a year ago, there was a burning smell in the car and we took it in to get looked at - they didn't find anything. No idea how relevant it is (probably not) but I've mentioned it to the garage anyway. Now I'm just waiting on Green Flag. And my boss has said I can take the afternoon off, so once the car is collected, I'm heading home.

Twinair11 said:

Ouch- potential severe burns and possible amputation? I think I'm better off leaving well alone! ☺

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In fairness this would be an extremely rare event, but the consequences are so serious it's best not to take any risks. Folks routinely working with burnt-out vehicles generally follow specific protocols to minimise the possibility of HF burns.

Twinair11 said:

For such a small car, when the power steering goes, the steering is very heavy Or maybe I'm just a bit too weak

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No, it's very heavy.

In the old days when it was unusual for power steering to be fitted to a car, the whole steering & front suspension system, including the tyres, was designed to keep steering forces to a minimum. Tyres were generally much narrower in those days too.

That's no longer the case, and once you lose power assistance, it becomes mighty heavy very quickly.

The same is true for braking systems - you might be surprised at just how much pedal pressure is needed to stop even a little 500 if the servo is not working at all.

Failures on the road are unusual, but it could catch you out if you don't know what to expect.

jrkitching said:

In fairness this would be an extremely rare event, but the consequences are so serious it's best not to take any risks. Folks routinely working with burnt-out vehicles generally follow specific protocols to minimise the possibility of HF burns.



No, it's very heavy.

In the old days when it was unusual for power steering to be fitted to a car, the whole steering & front suspension system, including the tyres, was designed to keep steering forces to a minimum. Tyres were generally much narrower in those days too.

That's no longer the case, and once you lose power assistance, it becomes mighty heavy very quickly.

The same is true for braking systems - you might be surprised at just how much pedal pressure is needed to stop even a little 500 if the servo is not working at all.

Failures on the road are unusual, but it could catch you out if you don't know what to expect.

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if the brake fluid runs out completely from for example a major leak, will there be any braking power at all?

ahmett said:

if the brake fluid runs out completely from for example a major leak, will there be any braking power at all?

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The car has a dual circuit braking system and will retain a proportion of its braking power in the event of a fluid leak. This has been a mandatory design requirement for cars for at least the past 30 years.

What would be more serious on RHD 500's is a failure in the mechanism which connects the brake pedal & master cylinder - this has many moving parts and is somewhat tortuous and convoluted. A major failure in this mechanism (and there have been reported partial failures here) would leave you completely without any foot braking.

Best engineering practice is to keep this part of the mechanism as simple as possible to minimise the potential for a single point failure, but Fiat have chosen not to do so on RHD cars as this would have meant relocating the brake master cylinder to the right of the car.

jrkitching said:

The car has a dual circuit braking system and will retain a proportion of its braking power in the event of a fluid leak.

What would be more serious on RHD 500's is a failure in the mechanism which connects the brake pedal & master cylinder - this has many moving parts and is somewhat tortuous and convoluted. A major failure in this mechanism (and there have been reported partial failures here) would leave you completely without any foot braking.

Best engineering practice is to keep this part of the mechanism as simple as possible to minimise the potential for a single point failure, but Fiat have chosen not to do so on RHD cars as this would have meant relocating the brake master cylinder to the right of the car.

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I guess in that case you use the handbrake to slow you down ?

ahmett said:

I guess in that case you use the handbrake to slow you down ?

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Yup.

Handbrake efficiency is not what it used to be in the days of single circuit brakes and the way many folks drive today, they'd be lucky to stop on the handbrake without hitting anything.

On older Fiats in days gone by, you also had the option of stamping hard through the rusty floorpan & slowing down with your feet .

jrkitching said:

Best engineering practice is to keep this part of the mechanism as simple as possible to minimise the potential for a single point failure, but Fiat have chosen not to do so on RHD cars as this would have meant relocating the brake master cylinder to the right of the car.

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My Renault has the master on the left too, so Fiat are not alone. Best RHD conversion I've seen is on my VW, not only did they move the servo, but the bonnet release as well!

jrkitching said:

That would be an unusual cause - I don't recall anyone else here having an alternator problem with a 500.

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I must be unlucky - I've got the unusual cause. Car needs a new alternator - £455 to supply and fit, plus another £50 for an issue with a rear light. So a £505 bill a week before Xmas.

I could buy a 2nd hand alternator online for cheaper, get the car towed to an independent garage to have it fitted... but I'll still have to pay the labour charges incurred so far, so I won't save myself much money, the part will be used and have no warranty, and it'll be a lot of extra stress and hassle.

If I just get the Fiat garage to fix it, I can have the car back tomorrow. And as we live rurally (nearest bus stop is a 2 mile walk from the house), I really need it back.

So I've told them to go ahead. I'm just gutted at how much it's costing.

Twinair11 said:

I must be unlucky - I've got the unusual cause. Car needs a new alternator - £455 to supply and fit, plus another £50 for an issue with a rear light. So a £505 bill a week before Xmas.

I could buy a 2nd hand alternator online for cheaper, get the car towed to an independent garage to have it fitted... but I'll still have to pay the labour charges incurred so far, so I won't save myself much money, the part will be used and have no warranty, and it'll be a lot of extra stress and hassle.

If I just get the Fiat garage to fix it, I can have the car back tomorrow. And as we live rurally (nearest bus stop is a 2 mile walk from the house), I really need it back.

So I've told them to go ahead. I'm just gutted at how much it's costing.

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nooooooooooo tell them you will not pay the labor and want your car back get fiat uk involved if you have to. go to an independent who will source you an aftermarket Alternator for most likely cheaper (bosch makes them as well)

ahmett said:

nooooooooooo tell them you will not pay the labor and want your car back get fiat uk involved if you have to. go to an independent who will source you an aftermarket Alternator for most likely cheaper (bosch makes them as well)

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I could... but the car is out of warranty. I doubt Fiat UK would help under those circumstances Realistically, I think they'd just tell me that the car isn't covered.

It's a week before Xmas - work finishes up on Friday, but until then, we're very busy so I'd be struggling to find any time during working hours (i.e. when garages are open) to arrange anything. I'd probably be without a car until at least after Xmas, which would be a nightmare.

Since I voluntarily had the car taken to the Fiat garage, and asked them to look at it, I'd still be obliged to pay the labour charges incurred so far.

Do you really think Fiat UK would help? I've heard of people struggling to get issues fixed even with cars that are still in warranty.

Twinair11 said:

I could... but the car is out of warranty. I doubt Fiat UK would help under those circumstances Realistically, I think they'd just tell me that the car isn't covered.

It's a week before Xmas - work finishes up on Friday, but until then, we're very busy so I'd be struggling to find any time during working hours (i.e. when garages are open) to arrange anything. I'd probably be without a car until at least after Xmas, which would be a nightmare.

Since I voluntarily had the car taken to the Fiat garage, and asked them to look at it, I'd still be obliged to pay the labour charges incurred so far.

Do you really think Fiat UK would help? I've heard of people struggling to get issues fixed even with cars that are still in warranty.

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i mean tell fiat you want your car back without fixing it and without paying any labor charges. did you sign a paper saying you would pay the labor charges and that you accept to pay this?
if you havent kick up a fuss (make excuses you cannot afford to pay them anything etc etc) and then once u get the car back, get an indie to change the alternator. the alternator really isnt a rare spare part for a car, especially one as common as the fiat 500.

Twinair11 said:

I must be unlucky - I've got the unusual cause. Car needs a new alternator - £455 to supply and fit, plus another £50 for an issue with a rear light. So a £505 bill a week before Xmas.

I could buy a 2nd hand alternator online for cheaper, get the car towed to an independent garage to have it fitted... but I'll still have to pay the labour charges incurred so far, so I won't save myself much money, the part will be used and have no warranty, and it'll be a lot of extra stress and hassle.

If I just get the Fiat garage to fix it, I can have the car back tomorrow. And as we live rurally (nearest bus stop is a 2 mile walk from the house), I really need it back.

So I've told them to go ahead. I'm just gutted at how much it's costing.

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Sorry to hear about your troubles, as it's such a new car it is reasonable to expect an alternator to last more than 3 years, I'm guessing the car is only just out of warranty, I would as suggested get fiat UK involved, make lots of noise on there Facebook page Twitter etc, basically bad mouth the car and how crap it is to get a £500 bill a few months out of waranty, they might agree to foot some of the bill knock the cost of parts off or similar, but act quick as its much harder to get anywhere after the event.

A small claims court would definitely award you your money back because of the age of the car and the expectation for parts to last longer, it wouldn't be reasonable for fiat to expect you to pay another £500 in three years time for another alternator