However, I'm not sure that I'd call £20k an entry level car.
If we're talking Up!/Citigo; then I'd agree.
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General More and More People Unhappy with the Fiat 500?
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General More and More People Unhappy with the Fiat 500?
However, I'm not sure that I'd call £20k an entry level car.
If we're talking Up!/Citigo; then I'd agree.
Sure, I think the 1.0 Up produces around 75bhp but it's not all about power anyway, more about refinement and usability. I've never driven an Up btw so cannot comment on it but I'd reckon it'll manage a hill start!!
David Bliss
Member
We have now done a few hundred miles with our new Ford Fiesta. I think it is one step above a Twin air (but I might have to hide behind something after that remark!). It is a 1 litre, three cylinder, turbo, direct fuel injection petrol engine that produces 125 bhp. The most important thing that makes it very tractable is torque, and it has masses of it for a small car. It produces 126 ft lbs at 1400 revs constant to 4500 revs. This engine has won accolades three years running.
When I put our two Pandas over a rolling road the 09 one had done around 50 000 the new one had done about 1000 miles. The test results were as follows:-
Our really nice 09 1.2 Panda produced 66.3 bhp at 5130 revs (it was built as a 60hp), it had measurable torque from 1400 revs of 70 ft lbs, and maxed out at 79.3 ft lbs at 3096 revs.
Our new, horrible 1.2 Panda produced 76.1 bhp at 6300 revs, however it could not get going under 1500 revs on the rolling road, so the test had to start at this speed. It produced 58 ft lbs at 1500 revs and maxed out at 79.0 ft lbs at 4384 revs. The 1.2 Euro 6 engine is laughable, for normal driving it hasn’t got enough power to be any good, it doesn’t really perform well until you get to motorway speeds, not much use in rural Norfolk or for city driving, it is hard work to keep the wretched thing going.
I am still waiting to find out what my dealer had to say about me rejecting the car. I’ll post the answer as soon as I know. I’m not optimistic, as the prices of new cars are now significantly below what I paid in March.
When I put our two Pandas over a rolling road the 09 one had done around 50 000 the new one had done about 1000 miles. The test results were as follows:-
Our really nice 09 1.2 Panda produced 66.3 bhp at 5130 revs (it was built as a 60hp), it had measurable torque from 1400 revs of 70 ft lbs, and maxed out at 79.3 ft lbs at 3096 revs.
Our new, horrible 1.2 Panda produced 76.1 bhp at 6300 revs, however it could not get going under 1500 revs on the rolling road, so the test had to start at this speed. It produced 58 ft lbs at 1500 revs and maxed out at 79.0 ft lbs at 4384 revs. The 1.2 Euro 6 engine is laughable, for normal driving it hasn’t got enough power to be any good, it doesn’t really perform well until you get to motorway speeds, not much use in rural Norfolk or for city driving, it is hard work to keep the wretched thing going.
I am still waiting to find out what my dealer had to say about me rejecting the car. I’ll post the answer as soon as I know. I’m not optimistic, as the prices of new cars are now significantly below what I paid in March.
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Hi David
I would love to get a good look at your Panda Sometime. There has to be something really fundamentally wrong with it to be as bad as it is.
Mine has just over 5K on the clock now and is nearly as good to drive as my 08 plate 500.
Shame, I was down in Norwich last week on business would have been an idea time. Now off to China. (god I hate the flights
)
Chris
I would love to get a good look at your Panda Sometime. There has to be something really fundamentally wrong with it to be as bad as it is.
Mine has just over 5K on the clock now and is nearly as good to drive as my 08 plate 500.
Shame, I was down in Norwich last week on business would have been an idea time. Now off to China. (god I hate the flights
) Chris
I'm a bit peed off with mine at the mo, given the sodden drivers side footwell but I still really love it. My favourite car.
Will be due a change in July. If I can swing it, a Panda Cross (my Mrs hates it) will replace it, or the new 500X.
Will be due a change in July. If I can swing it, a Panda Cross (my Mrs hates it) will replace it, or the new 500X.
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Discounts on VW much more than the 500 so list price comparison meaningless. Some manufacturers like VW and Ford have fantasy list prices so everyone can drive a deal. "I got such a good deal on my new focus, got £2750 off", "yeah but it was overpriced by 2500". Problem for fiat is the 500 is overpriced and you can't get 2500 off... Just ordered a 1.4 TDI SE 5 dr Polo for less than a discounted Fiat 500 1.3 multijet lounge. I was trying to compare to a 1.2 500 which is cheaper as I fancied a 500.. But the engine is now awful. One is blander than the other but also a much better car and much more practical. Fiat need to refresh the 500 or drop prices. They are loosing loyal customers, I have had 3 brand new Fiats in 7 years.
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Fiat are not adverse to doing this especially when a model is going to be replaced I remember the punto evo (brand new) being advertised silly cheap (less than second hand cheap) when they dropped the evo name and went back to just "punto" in 2012
And huge discounts off the 500L in the months following launch when it didn't sell as expected.
Even now they will knock a £1000 off a car and contribute another £1k to your deposit at the mere suggestion you're interested in buying a car
I have a fiat dealer 200yards from the house so often walk the dogs pasts and have a good look about at what's new, what strikes me is the lack of progress, the current punto offering is not all the different in materials and build quality from the 2006 grande I have parked outside, which was no better than my 2004 punto, which was only a marginal improvement over my 1999 mk1 punto.
The interior design of the current panda and 500L is a little improvement but is very much behind other manufactures. And the current "updated" 500 is really just an upgraded dash binical.
But fiat are very cheap compared to the others our 2012 Mini Cooper D would have been £22,000 when brand new and an equivalent top end fiat 500 (some thing like the Gucci) was only £15k so I wouldn't expect them to be compatible
In terms of quality and materials as well as the engine and equipment in our mini, even now fiat don't offer anything comparable and that includes the top end 500L which is supposed to be their current darling and costs are very similar.
Fiat are pushing the cheap factor, but I don't mind paying more for quality, although it's worth mentioning that the 1.6 bmw turbo diesel fitted in our mini and shared with the Bmw 1 series, although it's a very good engine it gets nothing like the mpg figures being quoted in this thread or by bmw, 70something mpg is more like 50something but it's still a very good engine, and the new modular 1.5 diesel is even better
ahmett
Prominent member
yeah i was suprised by how good BMW's new generation engines were for the new Mini.
I love my 500 1.2, no problems going uphill, motorway driving, over rough ground, through fields, long journeys, short trips, it does it all and the mileage per gallon is great.
Given the chance of another one after this one, I would get one.
Love it.
And as always, with every product owned by anyone, there are always going to be dough ones, and people that don't like it when they get it.
I recommend it to everyone that asks about it.
Given the chance of another one after this one, I would get one.
Love it.
And as always, with every product owned by anyone, there are always going to be dough ones, and people that don't like it when they get it.
I recommend it to everyone that asks about it.
The current 1.2 500 has a different engine to the one in your car.
Judging by the number of posts in this thread, the latest Euro6 version of the 1.2 has issues which your car does not have.
There are folks who have bought one of the latest 1.2's on the strength of their experience with the previous version of this engine who are now bitterly disappointed. At least one person has successfully rejected a car, and several others are attempting to do so.
I strongly advise anyone contemplating buying a new 1.2 500 or Panda to ensure they have an extended test drive in a known Euro6 car before committing to the purchase.
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I suggest you try a hill start in a Euro6 1.2 before you recommend it to anybody else or you may find that you have no friends left.
Not everyone has or will buy a Euro6 1.2....I am quite happy with my 500 Twinair Turbo Colour Therapy and would happily recommend it to anyone, because it can be so much fun to drive.
:devil:
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I love my twin-air 500C. I cannot recommend it highly enough.
It's a small car with a BIG personality and will keep up with the big boys for 95% of the time. (it's not a race car)
It's all about the way it makes you feel.
It's a small car with a BIG personality and will keep up with the big boys for 95% of the time. (it's not a race car)
It's all about the way it makes you feel.
Thanks I don't have a euro6, I never recommended a euro6, I just recomend a fiat 500. Depending on there budget they might get a older one, and thank me for a great car.
If you don't like yours get rid of it.
Thanks for your advice but I got rid of mine 2 weeks ago.
simmo999
New member
My 12 pop, will be 6 years old in Feb 2015, apart from the rear boot micro switch stopped working, fixed myself for £100. It's passed every mot without advisory, my daughter will take ownership soon as she has passed her test. Really happy with it. Along with my Alfa Giulietta MA 170 Veloce.
