Hello, I'm new here... and while I like most aspects of my Twinair Lounge a lot, its ability to cope with poor road surfaces is not one of them. The standard dampers really aren't much use, and feel as if they are almost worn out even though the car has done just 12,000 miles. They feel like this from new in my experience of several Twinairs.

I don't want a taut rollerskate of a car, but I do want proper body and wheel control and the ability to soak up lumps and bumps without bangs and shudders.

The Bilstein B6 dampers sound as if they might be a good solution, retaining standard springs because I don't want the suspension any stiffer, just better controlled. Even Bilstein B4s, a direct replacement for the OE dampers (Cofap?) might make a small improvement, but if the B6s make a significant difference then they might be a better bet.

Has anyone on this forum tried B6s with standard springs? Is this the route to go? I'd love to know.

I haven't given this thead a 'tuning' prefix because making the ride as it ought to be from the factory isn't really tuning. Hope that's OK.

Many thanks

John

IMHO the better option is to go for the b14 kit. Dampers are the same and you get progressive rate springs. The b14's are surprisingly comfortable imho.

Interesting idea, thanks... but after reading many posts on this forum about the B14s I do wonder if they might be a bit too firm for our broken roads. What I'm after is the sort of suppleness-with-precision that Peugeot used to do so well.

Maybe notionally standard-spec dampers from a manufacturer other than Cofap would do the job. Would Bilstein B4s achieve that, or perhaps Sachs Super Tourings which I have found work well on some other cars? It seems extraordinary that Fiat should spoil the 500 with such obviously rubbish suspension damping, but that's the reality.

My car isn't even out of warranty yet, so maybe I should delay changing the dampers until it is (at the end of the year). But the meal it makes of speedbumps and the way it gets knocked off line in a bumpy bend get seriously in the way of enjoying that fabulous little engine.

John

306maxi said:

IMHO the better option is to go for the b14 kit. Dampers are the same and you get progressive rate springs. The b14's are surprisingly comfortable imho.

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I am now fully used to my B14 suspension even on rubbish roads. To be honest, I did find them a bit hard initially but now I am fully used to it. I would probably crash the first bend I take if I drove a normal Fiat 500 after my Billie B14 Fiat 500!

johnsimister said:

Interesting idea, thanks... but after reading many posts on this forum about the B14s I do wonder if they might be a bit too firm for our broken roads. What I'm after is the sort of suppleness-with-precision that Peugeot used to do so well.

Maybe notionally standard-spec dampers from a manufacturer other than Cofap would do the job. Would Bilstein B4s achieve that, or perhaps Sachs Super Tourings which I have found work well on some other cars? It seems extraordinary that Fiat should spoil the 500 with such obviously rubbish suspension damping, but that's the reality.

My car isn't even out of warranty yet, so maybe I should delay changing the dampers until it is (at the end of the year). But the meal it makes of speedbumps and the way it gets knocked off line in a bumpy bend get seriously in the way of enjoying that fabulous little engine.

John

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The b14's will sort those issues, they won't turn it into a magic carpet ride but it'll be far more controlled.

I've just had Bilstein B4s fitted to the rear of my 1.4 sport and I'm well pleased with the noticeably firmer, quieter (no more metallic clanking) and less skittish feel at the back. I suspect that this is more to do with the fact that the rubbish original shockers were fricked (at an eye-opening 28 k miles) rather than the B4s being great shocks, but they have certainly improved ride and handling at the back for a reasonable sum - mine cost £140 for the pair, delivered.

Thank you to all who have replied so far. MarginWalker's comments re rear B4s are encouraging - if the same improvement can be applied to the front, it could well prove to be job done. And there would be no need to tell the insurance company because the B4s are nominally OE-equivalent parts, albeit better.

But maybe B6s with standard springs would achieve the good aspects of the B14 installation but without the small-bump harshness that's been hinted at.

Decisions, decisions...

John

I recently replaced the factory fit shocks on the front of my own car (not a Fiat) with Bilstein B4's and brand new coil springs. The difference in ride is very noticeable and not just because the original factory shocks had a few miles under their belt either. I'm replacing my rear shocks next month with Bilstein B4s to compete the setup. Nice easy job for the competent home mechanic too. Be aware, if you intend replacing the front shocks, check the condition of the coil springs (corrosion/pitting can be a problem) and if the car is at least 3 or 4 years old, replace the drop links too.

As johnsimister has pointed out, the Bilstein B4's are effectively OEM replacements and so no insurance issues to worry about as they are not a sports upgrade.

johnsimister said:

Thank you to all who have replied so far. MarginWalker's comments re rear B4s are encouraging - if the same improvement can be applied to the front, it could well prove to be job done. And there would be no need to tell the insurance company because the B4s are nominally OE-equivalent parts, albeit better.

But maybe B6s with standard springs would achieve the good aspects of the B14 installation but without the small-bump harshness that's been hinted at.

Decisions, decisions...

John

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The b6 dampers are the same in terms of damping in the b14's. The springs on the b14's are progressive so will be softer initially than the standard springs and as they get compressed then they get stiffer so as to avoid bottoming out as the standard damper/spring combo does.

On the face of it the b14's seem the the uncomfortable performance option, but this isn't strictly true.

I fitted avo adjustable rear dampers on my 500 when it was new. Totally transformed the ride. The damping over speed bumps was spot on.
To me, it was the rear of the car that was the problem. The fronts seemed ok.

I have the B6 shocks with Eibach Pro-Kit progressive springs which I believe are also sold as a kit called B12. The ride is firmer but I wouldn't call it uncomfortable. Also lowers the car a bit.

I can definitely recommend this setup - but if it is what you are after is difficult to say. What some find comfortable others might find harsh.

DaMoeKri said:

I have the B6 shocks with Eibach Pro-Kit progressive springs which I believe are also sold as a kit called B12. The ride is firmer but I wouldn't call it uncomfortable. Also lowers the car a bit.

I can definitely recommend this setup - but if it is what you are after is difficult to say. What some find comfortable others might find harsh.

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the B14's are harsh over bad roads but this mainly scares you more than bothers you. when you bottom out it proper makes a BANG!

the stock set up yaws so much over bad roads that it makes you sick anyway so between soft stock and hard b14's, give me b14's any day!

In the end I decided to go for a set of Bilstein B4s, not least because they were stupendously good value from the Rexbo.de parts website suggested by 306maxi on another thread. (Many thanks for that.)

Removing the 3.5-year-old, 17,000-mile front struts was a battle because the top nuts had rusted badly, despite my addition of the little covers which are meant to stop the accumulation of water. I had to use heat, carefully to avoid damage to the top mounts and the upper retainers, and ended up cutting through the offside nut with an angle grinder after the piston rod's internal hexagon broke apart. On reassembly I smeared plenty of grease over the new nut, the threaded end of the piston rod and the now-derusted cups, then ran a bead of silicone sealant between the cups and the plastic covers. That should stop a repeat rusting performance.

Was changing all four dampers worth the effort? Yes: the Twinair is transformed. It deals with speed bumps without a heave and a bounce. I no longer wince if I drive over a bit of broken road surface. The rear wheels no longer skitter sideways on a bumpy bend. The whole car feels all of a piece, with the wheel movements properly controlled. It's still a firm ride over small bumps but the Fiat's ability to cope with big bumps and undulations is greatly improved. It now feels as I suspect the engineers originally meant it to feel.

Another, unexpected, improvement is that road roar is reduced on coarse surfaces. The low-frequency element is better filtered out so the sound of tarmac swishing under the wheels is quite different. A further bonus is that the Bilsteins seem stronger and better made than the Cofaps, the struts having thicker steel for the brackets and a thicker piston rod. The rear dampers don't have the voided upper bush of the Cofaps, a fitment whose purpose is unclear to me. One curious thing, though, is that left strut has the bracket for the pad wear sensor but the right strut doesn't, so I had to use cable ties. I've seen Koni FSD kits for sale with the same anomaly.

So there it is. Twinair transformed and bank not broken. It just begs the question: why can't it be like that in the first place?

John

johnsimister said:

It just begs the question: why can't it be like that in the first place?

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IMO it's because Fiat would rather save a few pennies on the build cost than fit decent parts.