General Insurance and Modifications!

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General Insurance and Modifications!

I’ve just signed up to this forum basically to read some user opinions, as I’m about to purchase a 500 Twin Air. So, I can’t comment on the 500, but I’ve done lots of mods to my cars over the years, which have all been ‘city car’ to ‘supermini’ size. Some of the things I tried years back were indeed a waste of time - usually the ‘more power’ ones. So I don't do as much these days.

But moderate lowering springs up to 30mm I would recommend for spirited drivers. That is about 10% of the spring length. It’s not about springs being ‘hard’. They are progressive and have as much give as normal springs at first, only becoming ‘harder’ further into the suspensions travel. It’s mainly about lowering the centre of gravity: with that being closer to the axle height, then the moment of the centrifugal force is reduced, so the tendency for the body roll is less. This regardless of damping.

It has not made any of my cars crashy or left them bouncing all over the road. Far from it. It has improved body control when cornering, stability, feel and susceptibility to cross winds. I have never grounded one in 20 years.

Some manufacturers endorse the option of lowering for keener drivers. For example, Toyota’s own tuning arm (TTE) offer their own suspension lowering kits. Ford sell Eibach lowering springs as official Ford accessories! Skoda have lowered some Fabia’s simply for the improvement in economy.

RE someone’s bad experience lowering a Suzuki Swift Sport. I’m not altogether surprised. A reputable company like Eibach’s main offerings are usually 30mm, but less for the warm and hot hatches as their springs are usually already lowered (by the manufacturer - it’s one of the first things they do to improve handling!) Typically a hot hatch will be 10-15mm lower than standard cars. To fit 40mm lowering springs to an already lowered Sport version is rather extreme.

On the main thread title, yes insurance will cost you more. Some companies won’t touch a modified vehicle, others not those with increase power, some have limits to how much you can do - 1 mod, 2 mods or 3 mods, after which they won’t offer insurance. The latter approach seems sensible as a large number of vehicles have in fact been modified in some way - non-standard alloys, tow bars, or a dealer fit accessory. They don’t want to lose those customers.

I’m currently with Aviva - they’ve been good. It put my premium up, and by more than a couple of insurance groups worth, but not extortionately.


All of that would be fine for pretty much any car on the market. The 500 comes standard with pretty woeful suspension. It needs decent dampers first, not springs.
 
I’ve just signed up to this forum basically to read some user opinions, as I’m about to purchase a 500 Twin Air. So, I can’t comment on the 500, but I’ve done lots of mods to my cars over the years, which have all been ‘city car’ to ‘supermini’ size. Some of the things I tried years back were indeed a waste of time - usually the ‘more power’ ones. So I don't do as much these days.

But moderate lowering springs up to 30mm I would recommend for spirited drivers. That is about 10% of the spring length. It’s not about springs being ‘hard’. They are progressive and have as much give as normal springs at first, only becoming ‘harder’ further into the suspensions travel. It’s mainly about lowering the centre of gravity: with that being closer to the axle height, then the moment of the centrifugal force is reduced, so the tendency for the body roll is less. This regardless of damping.

It has not made any of my cars crashy or left them bouncing all over the road. Far from it. It has improved body control when cornering, stability, feel and susceptibility to cross winds. I have never grounded one in 20 years.

Some manufacturers endorse the option of lowering for keener drivers. For example, Toyota’s own tuning arm (TTE) offer their own suspension lowering kits. Ford sell Eibach lowering springs as official Ford accessories! Skoda have lowered some Fabia’s simply for the improvement in economy.

RE someone’s bad experience lowering a Suzuki Swift Sport. I’m not altogether surprised. A reputable company like Eibach’s main offerings are usually 30mm, but less for the warm and hot hatches as their springs are usually already lowered (by the manufacturer - it’s one of the first things they do to improve handling!) Typically a hot hatch will be 10-15mm lower than standard cars. To fit 40mm lowering springs to an already lowered Sport version is rather extreme.

On the main thread title, yes insurance will cost you more. Some companies won’t touch a modified vehicle, others not those with increase power, some have limits to how much you can do - 1 mod, 2 mods or 3 mods, after which they won’t offer insurance. The latter approach seems sensible as a large number of vehicles have in fact been modified in some way - non-standard alloys, tow bars, or a dealer fit accessory. They don’t want to lose those customers.

I’m currently with Aviva - they’ve been good. It put my premium up, and by more than a couple of insurance groups worth, but not extortionately.

Not to be rude, but it's nothing to do with centrifugal force.....
 
Not to be rude, but it's nothing to do with centrifugal force.....

You're not being rude, you're being wrong. It's basic physics. The roll while cornering is caused by the moment of the centrifugal force. (Moment about a point in being the product of distance and force). The friction in the tyres provides the centripetal force in balance with centrifugal, but the centrifugal force, (assumed to act through the centre of gravity) is causing the vehicle to lean in direct proportion to the distance of the centre of gravity above the origin. Hence a double decker bus has far greater tendency to roll than a formula one racing car. Hence regardless of the stiffness of springs, and antiroll bar, there is simply less tilting moment to control because 'lowered' springs have lowered the centre of gravity.
 
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sorry, my bad, I read that as centrifugal forces within the suspension itself, it's late.

Anyway the problem with the 500 is still the damping as I said before. I've never felt that my 500 rolls too much, it just completely lacks body control when it comes to bumps. As a soon to be 500 owner you'll encounter this soon enough.
 
Anyway the problem with the 500 is still the damping as I said before. I've never felt that my 500 rolls too much, it just completely lacks body control when it comes to bumps. As a soon to be 500 owner you'll encounter this soon enough.

Yeah, this is the crux of the matter. For such a tall car (the 500 is really tall for its size) they actually corner surprisingly flatly.

The bigger problem, as Maxi says, is bumps. A bump mid corner dramatically upsets things and even over an undulating road in a straight line at moderate speeds the car starts to feel unsettled- a good while back a review described it very well- "things never feel quite settled at speed" or similar. At times I'm convinced mine hit the bump stops, and I'm not exactly a harsh driver.

I suspect 90% of lowering springs are made/sold for the "it'll look well wikkid, bruv" types rather than the "oh, this suspension is the wrong compromise for me" types, hence why idiots end up cutting springs. As said above, properly designed (matched) springs and dampers will improve things. Throwing on a set of harder springs (as the OP originally stated his intention to be) with no real understanding of basic principles will just **** things up.
 
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Don't look at the cheapest insurers from experience.

And depends what modifications you're looking at, some will accept certain mods, but not all.

I agree, and always declare everything to your insurance, it'll save a lot of trouble later, not only if you have an accident but also if pulled by the Police. And they do like to take more notice of funned up vehicles. If the mods aren't declared they could treat it as an uninsured car.

I've just declared that I've uprated the alloys and had a stainless exhaust fitted, It didn't cost a penny extra (prob because neither is classed as a performance mod), but now its covered on my insurance details.
 
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