306maxi said:

IF they've made a modification

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I'm sure there have been a huge number of detailed changes made to the specification of the 500 over the lifespan of the model.

The similarity in what being reported now by a number of different posters, coupled with the fact that noone was posting this sort of thing previously, leads me to believe that whatever is causing this is something Fiat have recently changed in the specification of the car's hardware, firmware or software.

Of course, but let's not rule out a poor batch of components or a change to mapping.

I don't recall a similar flurry of postings on this issue prior to jan14 so they've obviously done something

306maxi said:

Of course, but let's not rule out a poor batch of components or a change to mapping.

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Not ruling out anything, though I'd regard a change to mapping as a change to the specification.

As I posted earlier, I think it's Fiat's job to work out what's causing this, and find a fix.

Something has happened no doubt, but let's not close our minds to other possibilities.

I have seen this in action, Fiat technical was working on a 500 at my dealership when I was there, in the end (from what I could pick up) it was to do with the map settings, as far as I know it's sorted by altering some settings?
setting off with no throttle kinda job now,
This one apparently was stalling real bad nearly red lining to set off and struggling up hills.

I agree that Fiat have screwed up big time with this engine. I put both our old and new Pandas on a rolling road, this showed a huge difference on torque, the old one is far superior, it showed that the new one was less fuel efficient (ie less green). We have also spoken to other people about this problem who say it is caused by the variable valve timing (VVT) of the engine and they say it won't get any better at a higher mileage. I spoke to someone who had done 30 000 miles in her 500, and she still has problems.

I spoke to a sensible person today who said that our rolling road test results showed that you had to use at least 1000rpm more on the new engine to get the same sort of power out of the it and this equates to a higher volume of air and fuel going through the engine thus using more fuel.

You can see the test results for our cars on 'Panda flat spot'. Our new car is better in a number of respects but totally let down by this throttle problem. Fiat Customer Services just say adjust your driving technique, but they don't say this before you buy, or put it in the manual! It can be dangerous sometimes in heavy traffic, we have had near misses in just 2000 miles.

We all need to gang up on Fiat to make them realize that their reputation is at stake if they don't sort this out. We have already tried to spread the word in various ways.

Might it be worth those reporting issues posting their build weeks/last 4 digits of engine number/similar? It may mark out one week or batch or something as dodgy?

zanes said:

Might it be worth those reporting issues posting their build weeks/last 4 digits of engine number/similar? It may mark out one week or batch or something as dodgy?

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Last 4 digits on Ours is 3878 .... We purchased it on 17th May

Alfie14 said:

Last 4 digits on Ours is 3878 .... We purchased it on 17th May

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Thats why it's not running right, it was built on the 3rd of August 1978

Sorry Mercky bit of a sense of humour failure from me at the moment, frustrated with the problem

Alfie14 said:

... frustrated with the problem

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That's understandable; what you're experiencing isn't what you thought you were signing up to when you committed your hard-earned money to this car.

Sorry Alfie! I can empathise, hope you get it sorted

As my above post apparently car still the same, according to fiat its just the way they are And you have to adapt your driving style, bitting point then throttle.

On Friday the garage identified that our ECU has been superceded. A new version as of 9th May has been released. No details from Fiat technical as to what the changes are as yet, as this all happened late pm on Friday. The garage did identify another car in their stock with the 'latest ECU' fitted. We drove it and although the take off from standstill was much improved, it still struggled with 'pedal to the floor' up hills regardless of the gear. Meanwhile our new car has spent another weekend on the drive, with only a trip to the garage to confirm ECU s/n issue.

Sorry should have said the garage were very interested in the map that David Bliss provided (thanks David) and are going to follow it up with Fiat tech.
We now know the vehicle we test drove before purchasing was a Euro 5 1.2, which was smooth and responsive. If only we had know what we were letting ourselves in for!

Anyone know if it's possible to remap back to Euro 5, we are no longer interested in a few more mpg or slightly lower emissions.... We just want a car to drive and feels safe.

Facepalm...... The euro 6 ones don't emit any less co2 or do any better in terms of fuel economy, the whole euro 6 thing is a red herring.

Facepalm?
So what's your idea then?

306maxi said:

Facepalm...... The euro 6 ones don't emit any less co2 or do any better in terms of fuel economy, the whole euro 6 thing is a red herring.

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I've just checked multiple 1.2 500's on Autotrader on 14 plates and they all come back as being 113g of co2 which is the same as all previous Euro V S&S 1.2 500's.


You might wonder why I'm making a point of this...... but all I'm trying to do is point people in the right direction. This hasn't been done to reduce emissions or save fuel. This is something else and by walking into the dealership and insisting that the issue is the car being Euro 6 compliant is simply giving the dealership a lead which is going to be a dead end and your issue won't get resolved


There is obviously an issue here, but it's obviously not with all cars as we're only getting a few people posting that they have problems...... you only have to look at the Start&Stop thread to see how lively a thread can be if there's a widespread problem.

If the map had changed for Euro 6 then this would be happening with all new 1.2's and the fact that we're not seeing new people with this issue on a daily basis says this isn't an issue affecting all new 1.2's.


I'll say it again, this whole Euro 6 thing is a red herring, a coincidence and nothing more. It would appear that Fiat have perhaps changed the recipe or has a bad batch of components though, that much appears to be true.

Alfie14 said:

Facepalm?
So what's your idea then?

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I'm facepalming because people are latching onto an easy answer which doesn't even make sense. The emissions of petrol vehicles are not affected by Euro 6, the emissions of 1.2 S&S 500's are exactly the same as those of Euro V 500's (from what I can see) which is 113g CO2 per km.


Dealers are guilty of this also, I noticed on another thread that a dealer blamed EU legislation, which basically means they aren't able to find an issue and just want to find a scapegoat which means they don't need to take any responsibility for finding the fault. The number of people posting suggests that there is certainly a widespread issue, but doesn't paint a picture of an issue that affects every 1.2 500.