Northern Auto Tech - ECU and Blue & Me Repairs

General Delivery Times

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General Delivery Times

306maxi said:
Not really......


http://www.fiat.at/at/CMSDE/Documents/PDF/Preislisten/Preisliste_500_500C.pdf


The code 091 doesn't match up to the lounge spec at all :)
Click to expand...

Yes Really........

It matches perfectly on page 3, row 2 column 3. Which is the spec of 85kb Lounge we get in Australia. ie engine and trim level. Thanks for confirming that :)

Also your three documents

http://www.fiat.at/at/CMSDE/Documents/PDF/Preislisten/Preisliste_500_500C.pdf

http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/publishingimages/price-list/fiat-cars-july-2014-price-list.pdf

http://www.fiat.hu/UserFiles/price list/03_500.pdf

along with the one Khunaus quoted

21649_067-2014 National Dealer Bulletin - Fiat 500 Series 3.pdf

Are all dated July or August this year and all have the sincom codes ending in xxx.xxx.3.

306maxi said:
Also, the model code for the 500 is 312 as you can see from the photo I've just taken.
Click to expand...

Yes that is correct, model code is 312 in the VIN and 150 in the Sincom :)

What do the sincom codes end with on 500's built before (the, dare I say it series changeover, in) April this year? I imagine it is not 3. Probably 0, I am sure you will go check ;)
 
Last edited:
logger said:
Yes Really........

It matches perfectly on page 3, row 2 column 3. Which is the spec of 85kb Lounge we get in Australia. ie engine and trim level. Thanks for confirming that :)

Also your three documents

http://www.fiat.at/at/CMSDE/Documents/PDF/Preislisten/Preisliste_500_500C.pdf

http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/publishingimages/price-list/fiat-cars-july-2014-price-list.pdf

http://www.fiat.hu/UserFiles/price list/03_500.pdf

along with the one Khunaus quoted

21649_067-2014 National Dealer Bulletin - Fiat 500 Series 3.pdf

Are all dated July or August this year and all have the sincom codes ending in xxx.xxx.3.



Yes that is correct, model code is 312 in the VIN and 150 in the Sincom :)

What do the sincom codes end with on 500's built before (the, dare I say it series changeover, in) April this year? I imagine it is not 3. Probably 0, I am sure you will go check ;)
Click to expand...


You seem to also be ignoring pretty much everything I've said.


Explain how jrkitching's link shows that digit at the end starts as a 0 (as you see on the new model Panda


logger said:
Agreed. I have also acquired that bulletin elsewhere.
If you Google Fiat sincom numbers you will see the seventh digit represents the series.
model.configuation.series 150.091.3
As in 150 = Fiat 500, 091 = Lounge, 3 = series 3.
Click to expand...

So if 091 somehow denotes a lounge then why does a 1.2 lounge show up as 150.093.3? :) Why is a 105 twinair Lounge a 150.047.3? Kind of blows a hole in your argument there :)


It is quite clear that in Australia they seem to be calling it a series 3 :) That much is true. But is it a mistake? Why do the Panda 319's end with a 0? As jrkitching pointed out if this is series 1, then a car ending in 3 should be a series 4.....


Sadly the logic you presented doesn't actually present itself in the sincom codes.


Let's take lounges


1.2 150.093.3
TA (85) 150.091.3
TA (105) 150.047.3
MJ 150.096.3


Oh, but maybe if we go to a different spec it'll make more sense


500S
1.2 150.OS3.3
TA (85) 150.OS1.3
TA (105) 150.O57.3
MJ 150.OS6.3


Nope, not really......


The launch booklet is delightfully free of sincom codes
http://www.suttonparkgroup.co.uk/newmodels/fiat 500.pdf






The launch
 
306maxi said:
You seem to also be ignoring pretty much everything I've said.
Click to expand...

Likewise you did not answer my question.

Sadly, I ignore a lot of what you say because your Dogmatic approach invariably leads to a strawman arguments. Arguments that bare no relationship to the original point. Which in this case, was that the last digit of the sincom relates to the vehicle series and has recently changed. But hey, instead of agreeing to this, lets just have a pi$$ing contest about the semantics of "engine and trim level" digits which in my example denote it as a Lounge with a 85kw engine. So if you buy a series three Lounge in Australia it will have 091 in the middle.


306maxi said:
Explain how jrkitching's link shows that digit at the end starts as a 0 (as you see on the new model Panda
Click to expand...
I expect if you look at the previous model Panda you will see it had a different end digit and in any case the Panda is a different car and may use a different schema to the 500.

306maxi said:
So if 091 somehow denotes a lounge then why does a 1.2 lounge show up as 150.093.3? :) Why is a 105 twinair Lounge a 150.047.3? Kind of blows a hole in your argument there :)
Click to expand...

Perfect example of your strawman approach. 091 denotes "a" lounge, so does 093 and 047. Instead of accepting that the middle three digits relate to engine and trim and moving on. You cite examples of different middle codes that also relate to the Lounge trim because they have different engines. ie Lets just digress from the fact that the last digit pertaining to 500 series has changed. Which was the point Logger was making.

Strawman 2, You also post a photo of of 500 Vin to show 312 undeniably represents the 500 model. This to somehow argue that the first three sincom digits 151 that are on every fiat 500 do not represent the same thing. Weird.

This from the German forum that has been referred to:

The Sincom is more or less the order code of the vehicle. It encrypts model, body, engine and trim level and series. To find the among others also in the price list. A real classification is not there.

EXAMPLE-> model[151] engine and trim[091] series[3]

Sadly it doesn't look like you will answer my question. Did the last digit of the sincom change sometime around April builds this year? If so, what was it before it was 3?
 
logger said:
Likewise you did not answer my question.

Sadly, I ignore a lot of what you say because your Dogmatic approach invariably leads to a strawman arguments. Arguments that bare no relationship to the original point. Which in this case, was that the last digit of the sincom relates to the vehicle series and has recently changed. But hey, instead of agreeing to this, lets just have a pi$$ing contest about the semantics of "engine and trim level" digits which in my example denote it as a Lounge with a 85kw engine. So if you buy a series three Lounge in Australia it will have 091 in the middle.



I expect if you look at the previous model Panda you will see it had a different end digit and in any case the Panda is a different car and may use a different schema to the 500.



Perfect example of your strawman approach. 091 denotes "a" lounge, so does 093 and 047. Instead of accepting that the middle three digits relate to engine and trim and moving on. You cite examples of different middle codes that also relate to the Lounge trim because they have different engines. ie Lets just digress from the fact that the last digit pertaining to 500 series has changed. Which was the point Logger was making.

Strawman 2, You also post a photo of of 500 Vin to show 312 undeniably represents the 500 model. This to somehow argue that the first three sincom digits 151 that are on every fiat 500 do not represent the same thing. Weird.

This from the German forum that has been referred to:

The Sincom is more or less the order code of the vehicle. It encrypts model, body, engine and trim level and series. To find the among others also in the price list. A real classification is not there.

EXAMPLE-> model[151] engine and trim[091] series[3]

Sadly it doesn't look like you will answer my question. Did the last digit of the sincom change sometime around April builds this year? If so, what was it before it was 3?
Click to expand...

Like I said, the original brochure doesn't show any sincom stuff, neither have any other brochures, so no one can say what digit was at the end previously.


You're reading a little too far into things, I simply said that 312 was the model code, not 150 as you said.


You say that the last digit has recently changed but offer no proof?
 
306maxi said:
You say that the last digit has recently changed but offer no proof?
Click to expand...
I don't know. Lets do a little team work and see if it did shall we.
I don't have a 500 yet, but I understand the sincom may be listed in front of the handbook. Further I expect it may be on the sticker where all the stamped on the car where all three letter option are listed if it has one.
Should be easy to ascertain this.
 
You've got a photo of the vin plate of my car and it doesn't have this number on it at all

The option code on it is 312AXA1A, see a few posts ip.
 
Just to clarify also, I have only removed the vin and a number which says for spares which probably doesn't identify my car at all and starts with 02679 and has 2 more numbers after it.

Now do you see why I'm not necessarily buying the whole 3=series 3 thing? Seems to purely be Australia that seems to be talking about the series 3 and being from Australia I know how they like to be fmdifferent sometimes :)
 
306maxi said:
You say that the last digit has recently changed but offer no proof?
Click to expand...
Sadly you are full of it. Try this then....

UK Fiat Price list from Feb this year showing last digit for all 500's = 1

http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/publishingimages/price-list/fiat-cars-price-list-february-2014-uk.pdf

vs

UK Fiat Price list from July this year showing last digit for all 500's = 3

http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/publishingimages/price-list/fiat-cars-july-2014-price-list.pdf

Really 306maxi you should be right on top of all this sort of stuff.

Typo perhaps :p,
Not just an Australian thing as it is in the UK pricing documentation "being from Australia I know how they like to be different sometimes" - Yes we happily call BS when we see it.

Interestingly this code is included in my purchase contract, in the first line at MAKE: Fiat 1510913. There is a good chance other recent purchasers may see a similar 151xxx1 or 151xxx3 number listed in their dealer contracts. When crossing the T's and dotting the i's asked my dealer to clarify where the paperwork confirmed I was signing for the newer model and he pointed to this number as proof.

I am sure with a little more detective work we can ascertain exactly when this change occurred.
 
logger said:
There is a good chance other recent purchasers may see a similar 151xxx1 or 151xxx3 number listed in their dealer contracts.
Click to expand...

I wonder what happened to 151xxx2 :confused:.

By comparison with most companies in the IT sector, Fiat, like many car makers, are pretty much hopeless when it comes to documenting a version history and making this publicly available.
 
Last edited:
logger said:
Sadly you are full of it. Try this then....

UK Fiat Price list from Feb this year showing last digit for all 500's = 1

http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/publishingimages/price-list/fiat-cars-price-list-february-2014-uk.pdf

vs

UK Fiat Price list from July this year showing last digit for all 500's = 3

http://www.fiat.co.uk/uk/publishingimages/price-list/fiat-cars-july-2014-price-list.pdf

Really 306maxi you should be right on top of all this sort of stuff.

Typo perhaps :p,
Not just an Australian thing as it is in the UK pricing documentation "being from Australia I know how they like to be different sometimes" - Yes we happily call BS when we see it.

Interestingly this code is included in my purchase contract, in the first line at MAKE: Fiat 1510913. There is a good chance other recent purchasers may see a similar 151xxx1 or 151xxx3 number listed in their dealer contracts. When crossing the T's and dotting the i's asked my dealer to clarify where the paperwork confirmed I was signing for the newer model and he pointed to this number as proof.

I am sure with a little more detective work we can ascertain exactly when this change occurred.
Click to expand...

Full of it? When I said you had offered no proof..... you had offered no proof.


Like Jrkitching said, where is 2?
 
I'm sure the whole 'Series 3' thing is just for Australia, it's definitely out there on brochures and a new TV spot showing some new colours including Mint.
 
When I bought my TA 105 earlier this year the fiat dealer (not a franchise) referred to the ones with the TFT as either mk3 or Series 3 (I thought mk3 but perhaps my memory or his terminology is wrong).
But, at the end of the day, there is a lot of arguing about something so trivial. Can't see why it is so important. Mine is a 105hp without a TFT. Don't care what it is called!
 
306maxi said:
Full of it? When I said you had offered no proof..... you had offered no proof.
Click to expand...

It appears the onus of proof is on everyone but yourself, and it is baffling that when you're presented with actual facts you cling to your misguided opinions. And rather than moving on and accepting you made an error, you go off on tangents in an attempt to be correct in some form.

It is moot anyway as it only seems to be yourself with an issue and I'm not here to argue and I only posted the information as it was clear you were berating folk on the subject, without actual knowledge.

And I'm happy to go back to reading the forums instead of posting....


PsFiat said:
I'm sure the whole 'Series 3' thing is just for Australia, it's definitely out there on brochures and a new TV spot showing some new colours including Mint.
Click to expand...

It may well be only Australia that is "referring" to this as series 3 and that is because it is, and is the context that it was originally referred. That said the model and features of this car will be used across multiple markets.

I hope you enjoy your Sport!, the one I got is for my wife, but I might be taking it about more than her :D
 
Earliest mention of 151xxx3 I can see by way of Google date filter is March 13th this year, in the Fiat Italia price list.

http://www.fiatpress.com/download/2014/listini/140113/140113_F_500.pdf

Their previous list from January did not mention it.

http://www.fiatpress.com/download/2014/listini/140113/140113_F_500.pdf

Sincom in some docs and elsewhere called MVS. A convenient but totally speculative definition of MVS could be Model/Variant/Series.

Yeah the marketing might just be for Australia. Doesn't change the fact the last digit of sincom/MVS appears to have changed from 1 to 3 about a month before the TFT screens and other subtle Fiat 500 changes occurred April or whenever it actually was.
 
Khunaus said:
It appears the onus of proof is on everyone but yourself, and it is baffling that when you're presented with actual facts you cling to your misguided opinions. And rather than moving on and accepting you made an error, you go off on tangents in an attempt to be correct in some form.

It is moot anyway as it only seems to be yourself with an issue and I'm not here to argue and I only posted the information as it was clear you were berating folk on the subject, without actual knowledge.
Click to expand...

The onus of proof is on people trying to claim that something means something :)
 
logger said:
Earliest mention of 151xxx3 I can see by way of Google date filter is March 13th this year, in the Fiat Italia price list.

http://www.fiatpress.com/download/2014/listini/140113/140113_F_500.pdf

Their previous list from January did not mention it.

http://www.fiatpress.com/download/2014/listini/140113/140113_F_500.pdf

Sincom in some docs and elsewhere called MVS. A convenient but totally speculative definition of MVS could be Model/Variant/Series.

Yeah the marketing might just be for Australia. Doesn't change the fact the last digit of sincom/MVS appears to have changed from 1 to 3 about a month before the TFT screens and other subtle Fiat 500 changes occurred April or whenever it actually was.
Click to expand...
http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.fiatpress.co.uk/download/UK/2012/FIAT/PRICES/500_Price_List_April2012.pdf&sa=U&ei=3g_zU6vvN4vT7AbM94GICw&ved=0CBMQFjAA&sig2=O0n58x-SXnVuYZthFOlD5g&usg=AFQjCNE2rvQt0Wk9u5BNG6A3DRnhVMKg2g


http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.griffinmill.co.uk/downloads/fiat/Fiat_Scrappage_Pricelist_Jan2010.pdf&sa=U&ei=3g_zU6vvN4vT7AbM94GICw&ved=0CBUQFjAB&sig2=KJRmmuEAoWFi3-vRcuUbsg&usg=AFQjCNGzICLGLJOlCoSzYcWCJJ7tYiRFtA


See on here, both of these refer to a series 0 for cars which were made from 2010-2012 which wouldn't make sense as there should be a series before for cars with the old rear suspension and without start and stop...... If series 0 = the first release then people have cars before this.

See where I'm coming from? The arguments being put forward make perfect sense and hell..... They're logical, but Fiat don't seem to operate by this logic.
 
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