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Old 09-01-2017   #31
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Our 2011 500TA groans a lot ................. but only when the clutch is slipping.
Reverse some distance with the clutch pedal up and engaged, it runs quietly. Drive backwards, don't slip the clutch.

This means that it's the CLUTCH that makes the noise.

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Old 09-01-2017   #32
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Quote Originally Posted by spen21 View Post
hi there doesn't seem to be any forums covering the fiat panda twinair with the reverse groan so fiat 500 twinair threads it is. same engine same gearbox and clutch with same groan noise that's my thinking
There's lots of threads where we discuss faults common to the Panda & 500; there's more 500's on the road in the UK than Pandas, so this is probably the best home for your story. You're most welcome to continue the discussion here.
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Old 09-01-2017   #33
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

that's a good idea I will give the that a try I will take my foot completely off the pedal like you say it should show if its clutch related cheers.
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Old 09-01-2017   #34
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Yes, slipping the clutch when parking etc makes the groan.

We have a long drive - 75yds - (nothing posh, we're in a very rural area and away off the lane) and I often reverse all the way up it with the clutch fully up.

The groan starts when I slip, but after releasing the pedal, the groan goes.

Mick.
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Old 10-01-2017   #35
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

The manual for my Twinair says this about waiting 2 seconds once stopped before engaging reverse:


IMPORTANT The car can only be put


into reverse gear when it has stopped


moving completely. With the engine


running, wait for at least 2 seconds


with the clutch pedal fully depressed


before engaging reverse to prevent


damage to the gears and grating.


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Old 10-01-2017   #36
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Whilst ours is not a twin air I always select either 2nd or 4th before reverse, do this and it will never crunch(leave foot on clutch), a trick I found with my early Accords
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Old 15-01-2017   #37
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Reverse gear is straight cut and without syncromesh. So if you engage reverse gear before the input shaft stops spinning, you'll get a (basically harmless) crunch. In first gear the synchronisers stop the input shaft as you select the gear so no crunch.

Every car I've ever owned makes noise if you reverse at more than walking speed roughly. You'll often hear it in carparks and the like too. That's straight cut gears just doing their thing - generally, you shouldn't be reversing fast enough for it to be an issue. I've got a vintage pick up that's straight cut for every gear, big time whine in every gear but the direct 4th. It's lasted 65 years this way.

Why it would happen in 2nd I don't know though.
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Last edited by UFI; 15-01-2017 at 10:16.
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Old 15-01-2017   #38
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Quote Originally Posted by ronmanager View Post
The manual for my Twinair says this about waiting 2 seconds once stopped before engaging reverse:


IMPORTANT The car can only be put


into reverse gear when it has stopped


moving completely. With the engine


running, wait for at least 2 seconds


with the clutch pedal fully depressed


before engaging reverse to prevent


damage to the gears and grating.


as would most car manuals I suspect,

the 2 seconds it to stop the internals rotating , before trying to select reverse gear.. ever noticed people grinding into reverse in car parks..
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Old 15-01-2017   #39
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Quote Originally Posted by John202020 View Post
Whilst ours is not a twin air I always select either 2nd or 4th before reverse, do this and it will never crunch(leave foot on clutch), a trick I found with my early Accords
Yes, it's a good dodge if you have a slightly sticky clutch plate as it stops the input shaft rather than it carrying on rotating with the flywheel.

If you sit there at tickover in neutral, then select reverse quickly, you can get a knock or crunch. It's quite normal and caused by inertia. By selecting a forward gear (synchromesh) it stops the gearbox completely.

Another way, it to push the clutch pedal all the way in and dwell a pause of two marching paces before selecting reverse.

We have a long drive, and I reverse up it with the clutch fully engaged. Also, as we have many narrow lanes here, it's quite frequent that you may have to reverse a few hundred yards. Slipping the clutch over those distances is just plain wrong.

Regards,
Mick.
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Old 15-01-2017   #40
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Quote Originally Posted by ronmanager View Post
waiting 2 seconds
Quote Originally Posted by Mick F View Post
a pause of two marching paces
Well, I prefer the first, since I can't keep the clutch pedal floored while making 2 marching paces.
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Old 15-01-2017   #41
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

To clarify things here, the noise you are getting is really common across many of the smaller fiat especially the twin air 500's. there is a modified/superseded flywheel and clutch to rectify the problem. I replaced loads of them when I was in the dealer. Definitely fixes the fault and any dealer should be able to find the part numbers for both. Don't be fobbed off by any dealer. Fiat uk are well aware and could probably tell you the part numbers over the phone
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Old 15-01-2017   #42
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Quote Originally Posted by burrowsdeano View Post
there is a modified/superseded flywheel and clutch to rectify the problem. I replaced loads of them when I was in the dealer. Definitely fixes the fault
I know dealers that stopped replacing, since the problem reoccured with these "so called improved parts". So probably the dealers that continued replacing did this as a kind of occupational therapy for their personnel. Besides, even the newer 500 TA models with dual mass flywheel have this groan problem.
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Old 15-01-2017   #43
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Quote Originally Posted by Mick F View Post
Yes, slipping the clutch when parking etc makes the groan.
...
The groan starts when I slip, but after releasing the pedal, the groan goes.
It requires some exercise, but if you fiddle around with the clutch pedal, then you can find a position where the clutch slips without groan. Reversing without touching the throttle also helps to reduce/prevent the groaning.

Of course it's better to avoid a slipping clutch when reversing, but sometimes it's inevitable. For example when the TA is cold. Then the idle speed is so high that reversing slowly isn't possible without slippping clutch.

The groan when reversing is one thing, but when the car gets older, the clutch might also start to groan when shifting down from third to second gear.
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Old 15-01-2017   #44
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Quote Originally Posted by AGH1965 View Post
........... problem ............. this groan problem.
Not picking holes in your posts.
Apologies for that, but I'm highlighting an issue that some may consider a "problem".

My question is: is it a problem?
I couldn't give a toss about it.
The clutch works, it groans a bit, but so what?
There are quite a few little niggles about a 500TA (and other 500 models) and a groan when reversing is nothing to worry about .......... and it isn't a problem, it's just a groan.

Perhaps some of us like it?

Best wishes,
Mick.
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Old 15-01-2017   #45
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Re: Fiat 500 Twinair Gearbox groan in reverse

Is it a problem? Well, I can remember one occasion where the groaning made two pedestrians look at me. When I saw the look on their faces, I felt embarrassed. So technically it might not be a problem, but emotionally it might.
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